Skyrim-first thoughts

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clok1966
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Joined: 01/21/2009

THIS IS NOT A REVIEW just a quick comment after playing it non stp for 7 hours about.

It is elder scrolls: If you played the last 2 this wont be any huge change. I have alwasy thought this game engine was nice, and this appears to be a slightly upgraded version. I think it looks about as good as any game out ther right now. The big changes i notice, faces, they look a whole lot better then the last two games. Character animation is pretty much the same.. slightly clunky, i think they could improve this, but I sure dont mind it as is. The snowscape is excellent the haze, the snowstorms all look great. I think this is just one excellent looking game. As with EVERY elder scroll game.. you start a in lock up (holy heck, 3 in a row!) neat littel quick story, nice way to make your character, and then some tutorial fighting to get you on your way.

What i didnt like: dumbed down to bring in a broader player base.. sad.. I will admit the early game in the other elder scrolls was a bit harsh and turned some people off.. but I didnt hve a singel fight that was scarry till almost 7 hours in. The have made the leveling system much easier.. but this also dumbs it down some.. I must say I like knowing how I will level.. but again it seems to have made the game much easier. They still have the USE to level idea.. but now its not preimary secondary so if you shot that bow non stop you wont level to fast. YOur bow will get much better but ... you wont level.. Levels seem to be much like all other RPG's exp alone.. but you do gain exp for using abilities some too. I'm just not sure waht to think right now. I hated the old level systems almost impossibly hidden ways.. but the new one seems ..... to simple.. to generic.. I hate to say it but eh old "carefull waht you wish for" thing comes to mind.. hated the complex old one, they give me a simple one now I think its not complex enough.. damned if you do, danmed if you dont.

I alwsy thouhgt the elder scrolls favored ranged combat .. and this game is no exception (this may be my playstyle). I am the person who would play a MONK in every game.. the hard to level but once leveld a kick butt machine.. but In elder scrolls it just frutrates the crap out of me. Im finding a magic user to be excllent (if over powered).

Overall a polished up Oblivion... with a mauch easier to understand leveling system and a FALLOUT 3 like perk system..each level oyu get a perk.. say Flame spells take half mana, or do 20% more dmage.. but there are limitations.. you cant take perks before you have a certain level.. as a flame mage I had to have 25 points in destruction magic before i could use half mana on disturction spells.. 30 points to move up to the next perk.. but the perk trees.. are tree's.. you ahve choices ( again, standard tree system like WoW, Diablo, etc..) sp you can level some persk up 3 patsh with only 20 points.. but to go the next step in any of those paths require ,more skill in them.. this eliminates you putting all perk points in falme damge so a level 5 charceter cant be doing 100% more damge right away.. you alos get to increase: magic, health or stamina each level one time..

I'm hooked all over again.. but I love the Elder scrolls, loved Fallout 3 and Vegas.. $60 is to much.. but best game I hve bought in awhile..

SPOILERS----------------------

you fight dragons almost right away.. they are deadly but thankfully you can kill them.. your first fight you will have help.. The dragons have some pathing issues.. but do look awsome.. I was impressed enough.. The game favores a melee character to start ( with gifts/rewards) but as a caster It wasnt hard to level without them

Bill Loguidice
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Here are the books of Skyrim

Here are the books of Skyrim in the ereading format of your choice: http://capane.us/2011/11/24/dovahkiin-gutenberg/

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clok1966
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Joined: 01/21/2009
All sunday with crashs. I

All sunday with crashs. I spent the time to use a 3rd party defragger on my drive ( not needed with win7, but im desperate). Its getting worse the more I play. I'm trying to combat it by playing 30 minutes and reloading but even that doesnt seem to be any help. I know its disc access of some kind. Open areas, the disc will run the game will do its load pause and ...... desktop. I leave a dungeon, desktop, I enter a dungeon, desktop, I enter a town, desktop. In the first week of playing i had almost ZERO crashs.. Like i say its building.. and its making this game which I love, into a pain to play. Im used to the games on this engine ( or version of this engine) to be a bit tempermental.. Fallout was quite crashy too some times.. and other times hours with nothing..

I seee there is a memory patch, from my understanding it will do me no good, but again, i want to play so bad I think I will try it..

good note the Dorf (dwarf) stuff is pretty cool. Talk about one shot, wait till you hit A Drugua Death lord his bow is doing 190 a shot! (I currenlty have 200 HP and can live throuhg one shot) and he has Disarm shout(works wonders on anybody using some good equipment).. scrambling to pick that weapon up again is very exciting in a fight. Doesnt seem fair.. he is taking like 600+ damage.. I can kill him but he kils my companion every time..

this game is so cool!

clok1966
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Joined: 01/21/2009
I mentioned ehnchanting and

I mentioned ehnchanting and blacksmithing was a HUGE part of this game.. and it is.. Of course you can go without it but its alots harder..I recently maxed my Blackmisthing (save those wolf pelts and while annoying save every igot, mine every patch.. that 10Lb pick axe sucks to carry around I know) i just made the cheapest stuff.. im sure there is some level system making better stuff.. but leathere brcers take alot less leatehr then a chest so i jut made them the whole way. Its wierd, wolves howl is a magent to me (pelt).. they are one shot kills so they dont really do anything eles.. but that PELT! I have not done so much with my enchanting but I did make sure my elvin armour (light) had 20% mana regen and I'm sporting 10% mana regen ring.. and so on.. but i have about 100 petty soul gems filled.. (my first good bow was a soul trap one).. so I been spam encheting most stuff i sell (with petty gems)...

crashing: first 5 days almost none.. sicne.. way to much.. trying to figure out whats changing.. its crashing way more now. AND I HAVE rebooted my machine. Im not a sve every battle guy.. i always felt that took me out of the game, dont get me wrong, named and 10 henchmen battles in dungeon with a WORD.. yes.. but i can play and hour of regualr trvel and such and ntot save ( no big deal with the auto save on load).. but once and awhile i get 30-60 minutes outside and a crash. and it stucks.. and its happening far to often now. Again, no more then Fallout or the other Elder scroll games.. but its very noticably more then any other game.

Vampireism: SUCKS.. its shitty to get, and not easy to figure out how to get rid of.. it does actually have bonus's, you gain 4 powers over time.. all good.. but it has a HUGE downside, and unlike the old game, a temple cant help, shrines dont help you either ( they both kept it in check in old games, never cured but in check).. not any more.. I spent almost a whole day reloading (once you get tot a point it realy really really is a bother) and rolling back to an early save trying to figure out how to deal with it in this game.. the good news is i figured it out without hints.. the bad news, fixed and played about 3 hours and .. got it again!!!!!! now I gotta deal all over with it.

Cool note of day: you know thsoe coulds all over the map on the edges? i figured that was jsut "invisible walls" we would get stopped at...wow.. this WORLD IS HUGE.. teh ocena areas have stuff all over on the Islands..

SPOILER(not horrible)- out iin the islands was a mage with a HUGE drof artifact and says there are still some alive!!!!! and he has a quest for me to go find him.. man... that is story i want to follow out on.. the mage is a bit NUTS so its probebly something strange.. but right now this is the quest Im most excited to deal with). We have talked about story so much here in games.. and Im all for it but smot are just so "heard it all before" i never care at all.. this one.. the Elder scrolls, dorfs are long dead.. yet.. are they? if this quest line brings um back in some way, thats WORLD changing (for elder scrolls).. I CARE.. i want to know what this is about..

Seeing a person after dark (tht inst a guard) makes me wonder.. (and I follow them and most of the time is for a reason at end).. Somebody running... i follow um.. sometiems its something cool.. (small talk abotu some part of game/quest).. I cant believe how much dialog is in this game that fleshs the story out ( or is an outright clue).

Nathaniel Tolbert
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You can wear heavy armor check out enchanting.
Matt Barton wrote:

I've been experimenting with the mage. I see that I could wear heavier armor, but only my robes give me decent magicka regen. If I take them off, I'm pretty much left with a burst of two of spells and then have to switch to a bow or melee weapon.

There's a good way around this. Work up your enchanting skill. Take a set of robes that matches what you want effect-wise and then disenchant it. Find yourself a nice set of heavy armor, get yourself a grand soulgem and enchant those effects into the heavy armor. Starting off, you won't be able to reach the levels of recovery and damage increase that the robes will, but with practice you can exceed them. Enchanting is definitely a very handy skill.

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Matt Barton
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Joined: 01/16/2006
Good point
Rowdy Rob wrote:

Some CRPG purists might decry the violation of the "thou-shalt-not-degeekify-CRPG's" law, with Skyrim's lack of turn-based strategy or lack of combat depth or whatever, but I think an action-based combat system, with extremely-detailed scenery and enemies, is just as legitimate a "role playing" system as old-school turn-based. After all, tactical turn-based strategy, while closer to "real" D&D (and very fun in its own right), is not particularly realistic. Real hand-to-hand combat is a chaotic, messy, frenzied affair, where it's difficult to maintain your wits, much less attempt complex battle strategies.

I agree, but I don't get that in Skyrim. Instead I get "can I pause the game quickly enough to quaff potions (instantly??) or eat a bunch of food?" Combat is similar; throw a spell or two, pause the game to go into the favorites menu, select the right, spell, lather, rinse repeat. Part of this is the insane damage I receive--I can't afford to try to do combat without lots of pausing because I go down like a warrior clad in cardboard. Couple that with other annoyances, such as hirelings always jumping right in front of my expensive-to-cast firebolts and dying...This is ugly. I'm out of mana, my stupid hireling is kneeling or dead (prompting a reload), and the mob is still at full strength.

In all honesty, Skyrim has the least satisfying combat of almost any CRPG I've liked enough to bother with. I'm almost at level 20 and finding combats either way too easy or insanely difficult. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground here...

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Rowdy Rob
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Block Movement, Real-time, Party views, First Person, Skyrim
clok1966 wrote:

I'm sorry you didnt like M&M3 i may have recomended it as its a personal favorite of mine.. its that transison from Bardstale to Realtime.. not quite either. COMBAT in 6 is very hard it you dont use the spacebar to make it turn based.. suprising as it it.. i played about 2 days before i figured this out (again) i played it like a FPS for a bit.. not a good thing..

FIRST PERSON BLOCK MOVEMENT

I don't like the old-school first person block movement of MM3 (and other games like Dungeon Master, Wizardry, etc.) because it's very easy to get disoriented and not know which direction you're facing. Because of their "tile-based" nature, you could be facing north or south (or even east or west!) and the view looks exactly the same, making it not only disorienting, but rather dull to look at.

First-person block movement games basically feel like maze games with stats and encounters added to it, and I've never liked maze games (except "Deathmaze 5000!"). I might have been more accepting of this back in the day when it was hot stuff, but it's hard to go back to now.

I much prefer top-down viewpoint for old-school CRPG'ing. If it's not going to be real-time movement, then top-down is preferable. It's easier to judge where you are going, where the monsters are, and what tactical positions are available to you. More options become available.

Now "Might and Magic 6" has been a different story. M&M3 turned me off right off the bat, hitting you with a disorienting, plain-vanilla maze right out of the gate. M&M 6 kept me playing until 2AM in the morning! Which isn't cool; I don't like my sleep schedule being thrown off like that, and I should have disciplined myself better. I'm going to pay for this during this during the week. But I was sucked in! :-)

The real-time view helps eliminate the disorientation of the block movement system, making for a much more pleasant experience (for me). The newer "block movement" games, like Wizardry whatever-number-their-up-to-now, smoothly scroll your viewpoint between "blocks," making for a very nice compromise between "real-time" and "block."

PARTY VIEWS

All the M&M games, Wizardry, Dungeon Master, etc. have the first-person view (real-time or not), which is cool in theory, but they are party-based games. Even though your party consists of four to six characters, the viewpoint is fixed to one character's viewpoint. It's not a game-breaker, but in my mind this creates the illusion that I'm playing a multi-headed Hydra character rather than several distinct characters, where we're all in the same body. Unless I'm doing something wrong, it appears you can't have your "tanks" run up to the front lines of battle while your ranged characters pot-shot the enemies from a distance. This also limits battle tactics, where one character tries to flank the enemies while another charges into battle. You also cannot have your "thief" run up and try to disarm a dangerous trap while the other party members stay far back, out of danger.

Top-down views allow for more flexible battle tactics. You can do all of the above. You lose the "you-are-there" feeling of first-person views, but in the old block-based games, the you-are-there feeling is largely destroyed by the disorienting movement anyway.

First-person party-based games like "Star Wars: KotOR" got around the "hydra" feeling by switching views between party members, affording all (or most) of the advantages of the top-down tactical view. If only your ranged fighters weren't so stupid. :-(

SKYRIM

My thoughts on SKYRIM, based on what I've seen and heard, waver somewhere between "badass" and "old hat." Right now, I'm leaning more towards "badass!" Whatever flaws it has (that I'm hearing about), Skyrim appears to be the best CRPG in the "you-are-there" genre. They seemed to pull out all the stops to give you the best possible experience that current technology allows.

Some CRPG purists might decry the violation of the "thou-shalt-not-degeekify-CRPG's" law, with Skyrim's lack of turn-based strategy or lack of combat depth or whatever, but I think an action-based combat system, with extremely-detailed scenery and enemies, is just as legitimate a "role playing" system as old-school turn-based. After all, tactical turn-based strategy, while closer to "real" D&D (and very fun in its own right), is not particularly realistic. Real hand-to-hand combat is a chaotic, messy, frenzied affair, where it's difficult to maintain your wits, much less attempt complex battle strategies.

clok1966
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Joined: 01/21/2009
I'm sorry you didnt like M&M3

I'm sorry you didnt like M&M3 i may have recomended it as its a personal favorite of mine.. its that transison from Bardstale to Realtime.. not quite either. COMBAT in 6 is very hard it you dont use the spacebar to make it turn based.. suprising as it it.. i played about 2 days before i figured this out (again) i played it like a FPS for a bit.. not a good thing..

SKYRIM hint for anybody playing: quest involving Vampires.. have a black soul gem filled. I been stuck almost all day becuase of vampires and that fact I wont read a hint site.. Holy Heck it was hard to figure out.. I wont give any spoiliers.. but be prepared once you get a SIGN.. you need to deal with it SOON!

Matt Barton
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Joined: 01/16/2006
This drab color palette thing

This drab color palette thing is really a plague affecting lots of genres. It's like every game has to be the uber gritty thing all the way through...Hour after hour of desolation (Gears of War, Batman, etc.) What they don't realize is that you need CONTRAST to make that really effective, otherwise it gets dull.

Imagine in Skyrim if you went inside a tavern and it was bright, cheerful, with folks in colorful clothes and lots of laughing, music, etc. You go out you see kids playing...All that happy stuff, warms you right up. Then later on you're going up a mountain and it starts to get snowy, cold, and lonely. You'd FEEL that. It would hit you in the GUT.

Again, WOW does a great job of this...It felt good to come back to Stormwind or Dal after several hours of adventuring. You didn't want to come back to something dull and lifeless.

Instead we get 100% cold and dreary. Even the inside of the @#$@ taverns are sad and lonely. For God's sake, even Dirty Harry knew better than to set the whole movie in a grimy alley at midnight. As far as I can see, nobody in Skyrim has a reason to be alive other than to suffer.

I think The Witcher is a good game to compare this to. It feels very similar in lots of ways to me.

Still, I feel like I'm just nitpicking on this. Hypocritical to bash a game I'm putting so many hours into. Sure there's stuff not to like, but it's not getting boring even though I'm approaching level 15. Just so many silly things...You can't help but complain. You're killing a dragon one minute with barely a scratch on you. Then you get one-shotted by a bear. Am I missing something here? :)

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Rowdy Rob
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Color palette
Nathaniel Tolbert wrote:

Then Oblivion came out and the clothes got duller, and now in Skyrim, all they wear is brown. Sorry but people have known how to dye leathers since the early metal ages, so why can't these people wear colorful clothes? I'm not just condemning this game on the color palette, I'm condemning all games on the color palette choices. It's sad (in my opinion) that games like Crysis 2 has more color in it than this fantasy game! Games don't have to be grey and brown to be realistic.

I've noticed this in other games too. Dragon Age: Origins looked so dreary-grey-looking that it looked ugly to me. The Witcher wasn't quite as bad, but it also had a rather drab palette (from what I recall).

I gave Might & Magic 3 and 6 a boot-up tonight. I gave up on 3 right off.... I was never a fan of block movement first-person. M&M6, on the other hand, got me involved until I got killed seconds into my first battle with goblins. I need to read the manual, I guess, because tutorial modes were against the law in these older games. Still, both games popped with color!

clok1966
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Joined: 01/21/2009
This game really rewards

This game really rewards those who stick to one thing.. I been using my arrows on every singel battle.. and Im not 75 in it wchich is 80% more damage, i have 30% faster load, and 50% stun basicly in a long hall you will die before you get to me.. I have tired this approch with teh mage too I hav mentione ice bolt (love it) and i pushed it as his major and he is getting about the same.. problem is rooms.. But havein a lifeteal on the companion seems to solve that.. she is just a damge abosorber.. Im the DPS. I'm really impressed with teh undead you can raise too.. they are pretty effective.. seems they are better against each other then agaisnt me.

And I found out why lydia wouldnt wear any armour she got.. she IS PICKY!!!! gave her some uber Plate to carry and she poped that stuff right one... I was hopingh more for traditional fantasy armour for her you know chain mail bra and skirt :) I jsut been cleaning up old quests today.. 4 + hours and i did about 5... 15 to go... then back to main line quests

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