Chris's Podcast #1: Nintendo Should Just Quit

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Alrighty then... This launches my first podcast entry into the bank of Armchair Arcade podcasts - My first topic focuses on Nintendo. I do not really rant on this as it might seem, however I do inject an opinion that most certainly will not be shared by all.

It is unedited. There are typical pauses, clearing of the throat, etc as I gather my thoughts. Although I personally prefer to edit a podcast and try to strive for high production values, there is something to be said about purely focusing on the fun aspect of it all.

I hope you guys enjoy it.

Download the m4a.

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Chris Kennedy
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Hi, msimplay

msimplay wrote:

I generally disagree simply because so far Nintendo has always been successful making more money on hardware sales coupled with their own software sales.
To be honest while the gamer needs 3rd party support for different games etc as a Business as long as my products sold I really wouldn't care too much.

But that is the problem - at the moment, Nintendo isn't doing well. From what I have read, their shares have fallen 50% this year. The 3DS appears to be a stumbling block rather than a must-have, innovative toy.

Quote:

Nintendo controls the hardware and software which is a benefit in itself

For their first party titles, yes - but they need a way for other companies to jump onboard. The DS had the touch screen and dual screen - very nice. The 3DS has 3D, and it just isn't happening from what I can tell - at least so far.

Quote:

You base a lot on "if" ie if the Wii U does not do well which we don't even know yet as we didn't know when the Wii first came out
I prefer to base on facts instead of conjecture fact is that Wii is the most successful console this generation.

Companies can't base themselves on facts as facts come...well..."after the fact." They have to go on conjecture. They have to forget about the past (DS and Wii sales to date), examine the present and focus on the future. I did not base a lot on "if" the Wii U does not do well - I just included it as part of my argument. The 3DS isn't doing well, and Nintendo isn't doing well either. Therefore, it is logical to say "if the Wii U does not do well," ...they will have a problem on their hands.

I suppose one has to define what "most successful" console means. I disagree that the Wii is the most successful console. I also think that there is some bit of subjectivity involved in defining which one is most successful. I do not think that there is an adequate way to measure all of the different traits that determine if a console is successful.

Is the basis on total number of hardware units sold?

I am a bit confused by your statement, "I prefer to base on facts instead of conjecture fact is the Wii is the most successful console this generation." That statement contains a small bit of fanboyism in it as you seem to be slightly insulting me while also making a ridiculously blanket statement declaring the Wii "the most successful console this generation." I would prefer that you rephrase and backup your claim while also defining your criteria. Not to mention the fact that I wasn't really talking about the Wii. Ha!

This is one of the reasons I asked what determines which console is most successful - you could point me to sales and say, "the Wii has sold more than any of the other consoles." If you point me to that, I cannot argue against the numbers - but again I have to ask if it is about hardware sales alone.

---

Keep in mind that this is also an opinion - and editorial. I am just putting an opinion out there - with no risk to myself - and saying that I think Nintendo could really amp things up if they abandon their need to manufacture their own hardware. They need ...something. Perhaps the Wii U is it! I don't know. I am just saying that they could really reap the benefits of continuing as a third party developer for other platforms - it could be the only choice they have if the Wii U fails.

n/a
msimplay
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Joined: 10/07/2010
Nintendo should stay IMO
Chris Kennedy wrote:

For their first party titles, yes - but they need a way for other companies to jump onboard. The DS had the touch screen and dual screen - very nice. The 3DS has 3D, and it just isn't happening from what I can tell - at least so far.

Companies can't base themselves on facts as facts come...well..."after the fact." They have to go on conjecture. They have to forget about the past (DS and Wii sales to date), examine the present and focus on the future. I did not base a lot on "if" the Wii U does not do well - I just included it as part of my argument. The 3DS isn't doing well, and Nintendo isn't doing well either. Therefore, it is logical to say "if the Wii U does not do well," ...they will have a problem on their hands.

I suppose one has to define what "most successful" console means. I disagree that the Wii is the most successful console. I also think that there is some bit of subjectivity involved in defining which one is most successful. I do not think that there is an adequate way to measure all of the different traits that determine if a console is successful.

Is the basis on total number of hardware units sold?

I am a bit confused by your statement, "I prefer to base on facts instead of conjecture fact is the Wii is the most successful console this generation." That statement contains a small bit of fanboyism in it as you seem to be slightly insulting me while also making a ridiculously blanket statement declaring the Wii "the most successful console this generation." I would prefer that you rephrase and backup your claim while also defining your criteria. Not to mention the fact that I wasn't really talking about the Wii. Ha!

This is one of the reasons I asked what determines which console is most successful - you could point me to sales and say, "the Wii has sold more than any of the other consoles." If you point me to that, I cannot argue against the numbers - but again I have to ask if it is about hardware sales alone.

---

Keep in mind that this is also an opinion - and editorial. I am just putting an opinion out there - with no risk to myself - and saying that I think Nintendo could really amp things up if they abandon their need to manufacture their own hardware. They need ...something. Perhaps the Wii U is it! I don't know. I am just saying that they could really reap the benefits of continuing as a third party developer for other platforms - it could be the only choice they have if the Wii U fails.

The criteria is that it has far outsold the other consoles this has been the criteria since day one its what companies have used to define which platform they will develop for. For the longest time however with the Wii not having the HD capabilities it seems that a lot of Devs chose other platforms instead.

The other thing is with regards to shareholders that is also based on prediction once sales increase the shareholders will come back.
Shareholders are just people they use their judgement like me and you sure the 3DS has had stumbling blocks with the pricing structure of the 3DS but the price drop has meant massively increased sales I'm sure those shareholders will come back.

Remember when the PS3 wasn't doing so well due to pricing ?

I strongly decline fanboyism I'm just a supporter of Nintendo through my own view I enjoy their games and I enjoy the Wii I do own an Xbox and have many games for that also.
I am well aware the Wii has its faults but I disagree that it is in the business model.

Sales is my definition of success so what is yours ?

Chris Kennedy
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msimplay wrote:

Remember when the PS3 wasn't doing so well due to pricing ?

The PS3 had a TERRIBLE launch! Sony took such a dive after how well the PS2 was doing. It is a good example of not being able to rely on a previous generation to carry you into the next. A great example of irony, here, is how the PS3 promised backwards compatibility with PS2 games & Sony quickly dropped that.

Quote:

I strongly decline fanboyism I'm just a supporter of Nintendo through my own view I enjoy their games and I enjoy the Wii I do own an Xbox and have many games for that also.
I am well aware the Wii has its faults but I disagree that it is in the business model.

I certainly didn't mean for it to sound like I thought the Wii was a failure. My primary concern for Nintendo comes from where do they go from here rather than what got them here (strong sales of the DS and Wii + decline in sales with the 3DS)

Sony has some make-up work to do with the Vita. Remember the PSP Go? (I suppose it still exists, but...) They released that, it didn't grab the consumers well, was way overpriced, didn't have a UMD drive or offer an alternative for playing PSP games you already own - it was, in my opinion, quite the flop! I think they discontinued it only shortly more than a year after it was released. Sony now has the Vita on the way. In the meantime, the PSP has still received games.

Is Nintendo putting in a last ditch effort to put the 3DS in more hands? Possibly. Perhaps they are looking to do a major revision to the system without redesigning from the ground up. I think Nintendo knows the 3D aspect hasn't caught on AND is trying to salvage the system by adding that second analog stick.

Quote:

Sales is my definition of success so what is yours ?

Sales of the hardware, software, or both? Should 1st and 3rd party software sales get pushed together, or should they be counted separately? From the sales figures I have seen on the Wii, the top software sales are almost entirely first party - and they are certainly quite good!

So I look at myself and think "Well I have a Wii, but I focus on other consoles when it comes to games other than Mario, Metroid, Zelda, etc." So what does that mean? Does it mean that the other console was more successful for me, personally? I suppose so. So then I have to look beyond that - what about other people? Most of the people I know that have a Wii and only have a Wii don't really play it anymore. Some of these people have bought a game, played it for a little bit, and then let it gather dust. Meanwhile, others focus on their 360 and play some of the same games over and over again.

I don't think sales can illustrate this, but does that matter? Should the sales figures alone be used to show how successful a console was? I think they are certainly a large part of it, but I also think that establishing a fanbase is also very important if you continue to release your own hardware - Of the people I know, I would say that most people are going to be more excited about the next Xbox than they are the next Wii.

Of course, I am personally a bit tired of leaning on hardware evolution...but that is another podcast.

So although I believe sales are a great part of measuring success, I think that it goes beyond sales to measure success. If ten people buy something and hate it, the company will consider those ten sales to be successful - money in their pocket - but what about the ten people that bought it?

n/a
Bill Loguidice
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Nintendo
Chris Kennedy wrote:

Sony has some make-up work to do with the Vita. Remember the PSP Go? (I suppose it still exists, but...) They released that, it didn't grab the consumers well, was way overpriced, didn't have a UMD drive or offer an alternative for playing PSP games you already own - it was, in my opinion, quite the flop! I think they discontinued it only shortly more than a year after it was released. Sony now has the Vita on the way. In the meantime, the PSP has still received games.

By any measure, even Sony's, it was a flop. The PSP Go didn't even sell in Japan, and they love the PSP platform over there!

Chris Kennedy wrote:

Is Nintendo putting in a last ditch effort to put the 3DS in more hands? Possibly. Perhaps they are looking to do a major revision to the system without redesigning from the ground up. I think Nintendo knows the 3D aspect hasn't caught on AND is trying to salvage the system by adding that second analog stick.

Even if Nintendo isn't, they're reacting like they are. Such dramatic moves early on indicate nothing less. The next logical step in this process is to release the 3DS "Lite", which HAS to come, and will at minimum incorporate the second analog stick and additional shoulder buttons, but would certainly not be surprising if it included a bit more (bigger screens, faster processor for better media processing, more memory for better media processing, etc.).

Chris Kennedy wrote:

I don't think sales can illustrate this, but does that matter? Should the sales figures alone be used to show how successful a console was? I think they are certainly a large part of it, but I also think that establishing a fanbase is also very important if you continue to release your own hardware - Of the people I know, I would say that most people are going to be more excited about the next Xbox than they are the next Wii.

This is a great point and one that will be very interesting to see how it plays out. Will the casual Nintendo so successfully courted with the Wii follow Nintendo to their next system? Certainly Nintendo has been doing a lot to anger the so-called core gamer of late, both with limited Wii support and the various maneuvers of late with the 3DS.

n/a
msimplay
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Nintendo should stay IMO
Chris Kennedy wrote:

The PS3 had a TERRIBLE launch! Sony took such a dive after how well the PS2 was doing. It is a good example of not being able to rely on a previous generation to carry you into the next. A great example of irony, here, is how the PS3 promised backwards compatibility with PS2 games & Sony quickly dropped that.

PS3 had a a terrible launch this is exactly my point the comparison to 3DS and maybe even the Wii U but until everything is said and done or we are at least into the middle of the console generation we can't really draw conclusions and certainly not ones that say oh Nintendo should just drop and be software only.

My personal opinion does speak here but I really would hate it if Nintendo became software only this generation ahead now is Nintendo's perfect opportunity to become the kind of company company that gamers actually like again.
I even hate the fact Sega is no longer doing hardware Sega has not been the same since and new Sega gamers will argue they are better now however I am from the older crowd I prefer Sega of old when they wasn't doing so well.
I am one of those games that loved the Sega Saturn and absolutely adored the Dreamcast.
Sega has not been the same since with games being fragmented over different platforms , I understand Sega did what they had to survive however Nintendo is not Sega not even close to they are not in the red or even close to bankrupsy.

Chris Kennedy wrote:

I certainly didn't mean for it to sound like I thought the Wii was a failure. My primary concern for Nintendo comes from where do they go from here rather than what got them here (strong sales of the DS and Wii + decline in sales with the 3DS)

Sony has some make-up work to do with the Vita. Remember the PSP Go? (I suppose it still exists, but...) They released that, it didn't grab the consumers well, was way overpriced, didn't have a UMD drive or offer an alternative for playing PSP games you already own - it was, in my opinion, quite the flop! I think they discontinued it only shortly more than a year after it was released. Sony now has the Vita on the way. In the meantime, the PSP has still received games.

Is Nintendo putting in a last ditch effort to put the 3DS in more hands? Possibly. Perhaps they are looking to do a major revision to the system without redesigning from the ground up. I think Nintendo knows the 3D aspect hasn't caught on AND is trying to salvage the system by adding that second analog stick.

I don't believe the 3DS is in the same boat for one they have the potentially massive previous Nintendo DS owners to upgrade to the 3DS and believe me when I goto stores the 3DS is the hottest console around right now.
Price was the factor in my opinion people will argue on the Iphone and Ipod Touch being around now and I agree to some extent but there's a bunch of gamers like myself that would prefer to play higher quality experiences on their PSP's and DS's as opposed to the all touch controls of the Ipod touch and Iphones.
The total potential pie has obviously shrunk for Nintendo and Sony but this is the point now the market does exist otherwise both Sony and Nintendo would not be making new handhelds right now.

One thing on the second analog stick I personally think it's quite a shrewd move I mean I couldn't care less as long as the games made for the console support the features of the said console properly.
However I guess I'm not the same demographic as the core gamer I'm one of those that has played video games for years since childhood am 29 now but I play games a lot less compared to before but still enjoy games my needs are lot less demanding now.
What sells a console to me now is the gamers and to be honest the 3DS has a fantastic promised line up I still think Nintendo has a chance to make their next generation a success.

I'm sure they will release a 3DS light of some sort to help with the analog situation which I'm not sure they actually need but if a game supports it I'm sure many will get enticed.

Chris Kennedy wrote:

Sales of the hardware, software, or both? Should 1st and 3rd party software sales get pushed together, or should they be counted separately? From the sales figures I have seen on the Wii, the top software sales are almost entirely first party - and they are certainly quite good!

So I look at myself and think "Well I have a Wii, but I focus on other consoles when it comes to games other than Mario, Metroid, Zelda, etc." So what does that mean? Does it mean that the other console was more successful for me, personally? I suppose so. So then I have to look beyond that - what about other people? Most of the people I know that have a Wii and only have a Wii don't really play it anymore. Some of these people have bought a game, played it for a little bit, and then let it gather dust. Meanwhile, others focus on their 360 and play some of the same games over and over again.

I don't think sales can illustrate this, but does that matter? Should the sales figures alone be used to show how successful a console was? I think they are certainly a large part of it, but I also think that establishing a fanbase is also very important if you continue to release your own hardware - Of the people I know, I would say that most people are going to be more excited about the next Xbox than they are the next Wii.

Of course, I am personally a bit tired of leaning on hardware evolution...but that is another podcast.

So although I believe sales are a great part of measuring success, I think that it goes beyond sales to measure success. If ten people buy something and hate it, the company will consider those ten sales to be successful - money in their pocket - but what about the ten people that bought it?

Well I think people fall into the trap of wanting all their games on one console but I would prefer more competition as opposed to a single console.
I mean quite a few own a PS3 and an Xbox despite majority of games being the exact same games with minor graphic differences.
The Wii was the 3rd console as far as gamers choice went but it had completely different experiences to the other two consoles.
This is exactly what Nintendo had said when they released the console they actually aimed for this they didn't want to compete on the same level and they knew they won't be able to they took a gamble and it paid off for them.

I can imagine everyone you know is excited about the next Xbox however I don't sit in that demographic really I mean what exactly is the next Xbox going to do other than another graphics evolution I guess this has been enough for most people for a long time.
It would have been for me and in a sense it is I love Nintendo franchises so I am super excited to see new Nintendo franchises in HD.
The whole 3DS lineup has me excited generally I mean i don't have a 3D tv in my house but I played on the 3DS and now I can see why the technology is the next thing in terms of visual affect it adds a depth not seen before.

However as I said I do enjoy their games and having their games is actually enough for me those that don't enjoy Nintendo games or mainly play games on their other console I can't really imagine them being supportive.
However there is the whole of the unsaid majority that aren't so vocal the casual gamer I wonder what they will think of the next Wii and 3DS.
With that said the next Nintendo consoles I think they are a big step in righting the wrongs of this generation towards the "core gamer"
I personally don't fall into that category any more since I don't have any requirements from Nintendo other than making great games so I can play them.

My bottom line is I don't really like Sega as they have become sure they make some great games but for me Sega was great for their games in the past however problem is how I liked them didn't work for them and I'd hate Nintendo to become what Sega is now.
However Nintendo is not like Sega they have been successful I mean even if we are using other measures such as gamer opinion to weigh in there is no denying that Nintendo is still around not only as a gamer designer but also as a hardware platform that everyone knows about even if they don't like it.

Aaron Wegner
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podcast

Hey guys- I'm liking the shorter format podcast. It's now much less of a commitment to jump in and start listening.

For the last several years, I've been amazed at how many millions of Wii and DS consoles Nintendo has sold. For its first couple of years, the number of Wii's they sold was several times that of 360's or PS3's each month. They were hitting all the right notes with their marketing strategy. At this point, they are bound to try to repeat that success. If the Wii U doesn't do it, I bet they'll give it another shot after that.

In the end though, I think many if not most Wii owners have found their Wii console sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I doubt those people will pony up the cash for a new Nintendo console any time soon.

The big N could probably see some success making games for other platforms like iDevices and Android, but it's not time for that yet from a business standpoint. Also, I don't think the games markets on these platforms are quite ready for the more profitable, high production value software that comes out of Nintendo.

Hammer
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Joined: 03/23/2008
Nice podcast but I don't agree

If anything, Sony and Microsoft should give up. Nintendo has been driving all of the innovation over the past 10 years, and you want THEM to get out of the hardware space??? I don't get it.

Bill Loguidice
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Perspective
Hammer wrote:

If anything, Sony and Microsoft should give up. Nintendo has been driving all of the innovation over the past 10 years, and you want THEM to get out of the hardware space??? I don't get it.

That's a pretty poor generalization. Each company has innovated or led the market in some area in some manner (feature-set, for instance) over the past 10 years. What's good is the competition, which pushes them all. There's no reason to think that Nintendo can't or shouldn't stay in the hardware game, but the reality is they've been showing signs of struggling trying to do everything over the past year or so for whatever reason. In the end, Nintendo's strength is not in its hardware, which is mediocre at best (and even fanboys have to admit that), but in its software, which is its greatest strength and something the competition can't match, particularly in regards to Nintendo's legendary IPs. Therefore, it's logical to say that if Nintendo were to focus company resources on software rather than hardware, they'd be doing themselves and everyone else greater benefit by being able to release MORE titles on a more consistent basis. The drought of Wii software and even to a degree 3DS software direct from Nintendo highlights that. When the Wii U hits, that situation will probably get worse. What's mind boggling is that Nintendo has as many financial resources as anyone else out there, so the fact that they can't keep up a consistent software pipeline and have made rather rash decisions in regards to the 3DS are particularly puzzling. They're not acting like the powerhouse they are. Again, that leads one to the logical conclusion that perhaps, just maybe, they'd be better off focusing on their greatest strength. That stance also makes sense if you subscribe to the idea that I do that this will be the last viable generation for dedicated gaming handhelds in the light of what's happening with smartphones and tablets.

n/a
clok1966
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Joined: 01/21/2009
Excitement

Excitement doenst equal sales sorry its just the way it is, actual cold hard CASH speakes to companies. Excitiment is great advertising, but it couldnt even remotly compete with word of mouth which the Wii ruled. Unfortnatly the only Advertising nowdays excitment wise is the pissing matchs fan boys get in. The cold hard facts as they are now.. Nintendo sold about 20 million more consoles then MS or Sony, its likley to stay about 20 million by the time all 3 are done. Nintendo made more green on Hardware then MS or sony did, or will do.. The Wii will likley see a small spike again this christmas as its said Nintendo is going to push it hard for this last year or so and it will probebly see a $99 price point. The Wii is a SALES success a HUGE one, it made money from day one, it makes money with price cuts and continues to make money. Its only fail is the fact its sales didnt stay HUGE through its entire lifecycle. its sales have dropped alot, but thats to be expected. MS and Sony keep spouting how they have stayed fairly steady year in year out.. but even that not correct. Both have experianced lows and highs.. which average on year ends to .. well Average sales.. both will point out a month when they outsell the other due to a specific game comming out, or in a specifice area.. Nintendo is behind both worldwide in sales per moth right now.. but they where ahead for 4 years... something MS and SONY wont catch.

So do you judge this on the end? the first year, the 5th year, or? or do you judge it on the people who read game magazines, game websites? most kids dont.. so.. sure.. purely on a webpage view and excitment point of view, the 360 or PS3 may be the one..

I'm sorry it has to get down to one thing $$$$$ the Wii sold the most units and unless somthing changes in 2 years, will have in the end sold the most units. The Wii made the most money per Console since day one and still does.

The Wii won..

But some intersting stuff to debate.
hardware sales are about 33% of total dollars spent
Software sales are about 52%
Add ons and acc are the rest

But ... hardware sales are off about 12% this year, cant make any of them (nin, ms, sony) happy.. but worse yet.. software is off 34%!!!!! and for those of you who care acc/addons are off .8% (actually end of year they will be up about 6% Kinect and MOVE pushed this number early this year)

the real money is in games, and that is the one place the Wii failed if you call it that. it had no support due to the gamecube at the start of its life, and the fact most thought it would fail. As it became succesfull the 1st party stuff SOLD like hotcakes.. once again as nintendo has there hand in EVERY part of Wii game making.. was really a HUGE bonus as they 100% owned the 1st party stuff. NINTENDO was WIN WIN.. huge hardware sales, Huge first party sales.. but the downside. 3rd party stuff was slow in coming, and the early stuff sucked. those $20 shovelware games where even a win for nintendo.. licence fee's where close to $10 a game!!!!(nintnedo gets that) But it hurt the game selections image. the other problem was, the motion control isssues.. it worked well, but nobody seemed to know how to use it.. tacking it onto a game made some games work like crap. In the end NINTENDO made out well, the 3rd party guys didnt. And we talk about hardcore.. none of the HARDCORE games made for it did well at all, in fact most flopped. That will hurt the new Console from nintendo for sure. And yes, right now its Hurnting Nintendo but BIG picture.. it was a HUGE success. Nintendo has 4 great years and most lilley 2 average to poor years with it.. those combined 6 years will make MS and Sony's past 6 years seem dismall on a pure number crunch standpoint (dollars, or units sold).

And that leads us to handhelds.. Sorry nintendo Owns this market, Sony has just barily sold half as many units.. the 3DS may not be the success the DS was.. but ther eis the deal, Nintendo still sells a boatload of Ds's...

Nintendo won this console generation (big picture, if oyu just want to count eh last two years, well maybe you can make an argument) and still owns the handheld (only) postion of #1.

Chris Kennedy
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Present and Future

Wii sales and DS sales mean absolutely nothing. That is all in the past.

It is about where you are in the present and where you are going into the future. My opinion on where Nintendo should go is based on the present and is also a hidden compliment of sorts due to the success of the first party games they release. They wouldn't just have to make new games for other platforms from here out - they could totally bank on releasing Super Mario Bros. for iOS. Heck - they could still do this without even leaving the hardware industry! I just think they have some options they can tap for solid sales, and honestly would be fools not to exploit those.

Perhaps they could even use those options in order to try more experimentation with new hardware and turn it into a win-win.

I just don't think they can catch lighting in the bottle once again - but hey! Maybe the Wii U will be a huge success, but their target is the common man - not the gamer types. Apple pretty much owns that audience now, so Nintendo has to release things that are not only innovative but give people a reason to choose them in over Apple or in addition to Apple.

n/a

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