Legend of Grimrock: New Dungeon Master?

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Bill Loguidice
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For you guys in level 4, what

For you guys in level 4, what is your present play time according to the stats? There are supposedly 13 total levels, so that might give us an estimate of total play time if we multiple by 3 and then add a bit...

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Matt Barton
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Yep, it's all about movement.

Yep, it's all about movement. You can't just stand in one place and take damage. You have to sidestep, turn, etc., trying to keep the damage down. I suck at it (IMO), so I'm still getting whacked regularly, but at least can avoid SOME hits. I have one dude with a bow that can get in at least two hits before they close.

Also, I notice you do more damage if you attack from behind. Hard to do...Not sure if a side attack does bonus damage. I think the designers are really banking on your being able to move gracefully with the keyboard; at least the difficulty suggests that. Those farting plants are fairly easy if you keep moving and don't stand in the fart.

I also pumped lots of points into ARMOR. You need it to be pretty high to wear light armor without a big penalty. I'm wondering if EVASION might trump PROTECTION, since the former is a miss and the latter is just a reduction. I guess they probably playtested it pretty well with both strategies...Still, keep thinking if you could get your evasion up high enough, you might be invincible.

Bill's suggestion to queue up a spell and have it ready to go is good, too. After battle starts you're lucky to be able to throw out a quick fireball. Fumbling with the runes is just too awkward in the heat of it. If you get hit with multiple enemies (such as the skeletons), I find fire blast works pretty well. There's a poison cloud (IIRC) that hovers a bit and does damage over time.

Finally, I'm finding that a LOT of places will let you trap enemies instead of fighting them. Just figure out how to make a trapdoor open, then lure the enemies onto it and let them fall. You can rest if you can get into a room and shut the door. At least, seems to work for me.

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Rowdy Rob
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Grimrock Combat Strategy: Stick and Move!
clok1966 wrote:

isnt level 4 where you get your choice of teleports? the one that spawns non stop skelly soilders sems like a bit of a cheat.. one at a time, none stop... easy leveling... they ome so slow, you wont die fighting them non stop unless you really screw up..

I must say the puzzles are the only thing slowing me down. Combat hit a few tough spots (when i understood i could out rest posion things got alot simpler)

Rob.. keep moving, combat in this game really requires some movement, the door trick isnt such a bad idea..

The walking mushrooms on the first room of level 4 were kicking my butt until I finally figured out that Grimrock is much more action/puzzle oriented than I expected it. I was playing it more like a traditional RPG, but in Grimrock you have to move fast! "Stick and move," so the boxing strategy goes. Once I figured that out, the combat has been relatively easy.

clok1966 wrote:

MAGIC!!!! several spells do AOE damage and it really really helps. So far the spiders and the posion shrooms are about the only tough stuff i have hit.. I like the ICE shard spell, it basicly hits anything in a stiraght line in front of you.. so line um up.. and do damage to all! If thier AOE spells hurt.. so do yours!

I sadly didn't concentrate much on Ice magic, but I think I have enough points to start casting the "ice shard" spell. The fireburst spell has been my mainstay. The poison cloud spell has been useless (so far).

The puzzles are kicking my butt. I had to come up for air and post this.

clok1966
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move and magic
Rowdy Rob wrote:

Jeez, I'm still having trouble at the ENTRANCE to level 4! How the heck did you get so far, considering I've had the game longer than you have?

isnt level 4 where you get your choice of teleports? the one that spawns non stop skelly soilders sems like a bit of a cheat.. one at a time, none stop... easy leveling... they ome so slow, you wont die fighting them non stop unless you really screw up..

I must say the puzzles are the only thing slowing me down. Combat hit a few tough spots (when i understood i could out rest posion things got alot simpler)

Rob.. keep moving, combat in this game really requires some movement, the door trick isnt such a bad idea.. MAGIC!!!! several spells do AOE damage and it really really helps. So far the spiders and the posion shrooms are about the only tough stuff i have hit.. I like the ICE shard spell, it basicly hits anything in a stiraght line in front of you.. so line um up.. and do damage to all! If thier AOE spells hurt.. so do yours!

Rowdy Rob
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Tips for us Noobs, Matt?
Matt Barton wrote:

I just reached level 5. Man, the puzzles and battles are getting very difficult. I hope I can get some better armor soon!

Jeez, I'm still having trouble at the ENTRANCE to level 4! How the heck did you get so far, considering I've had the game longer than you have?

Without spoiling anything, do you have any general tips and strategies that might help get through this game? I'm getting massacred in the first areas of level 4. I found two staircases on level 3 to take me down, and I'm getting frustrated to the point of quitting. I feel like I'm missing something basic about this style of game.

Right now I'm opening/attacking/closing doors on enemies to beat them one by one, but that's not going to work where I'm at now. I did go back and get the bow, but I'm thinking of going back up to check all the rooms for more items and enemies. Maybe I'm just not levelled up enough.

Matt Barton
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I just reached level 5. Man,

I just reached level 5. Man, the puzzles and battles are getting very difficult. I hope I can get some better armor soon!

I'm really liking how they don't weigh you down with an irrelevant story. I think they nailed the "dungeon crawler" mood just right. I also like the crystals that restore all your health (even bringing dead chars back to life). There are also placed pretty well to minimize excessive backtracking.

At least so far, I've found plenty of food and torches. That does worry me, though.

I know I've already bitched about the magic system, but it's the real achilles heel as far as I'm concerned. There's not even a logbook of spells, so you either have to keep the scrolls or write them all down. Very lame and a big UI fail (IMO). It's a constant irritation and distracting me from an otherwise excellent experience.

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Rowdy Rob
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Not for DM fans only
Matt Barton wrote:

I've been telling folks that only dm and eob fans will likely appreciate this. Others will probably hate it...and go running back to skyrim. ;)

I dunno, Matt. I was never a fan of DM (hardly played it, and didn't much care for its clones). Yet I'm having a blast with this one. I think gamers who are fans of simpler games like Diablo will appreciate this. I think the graphical update to this style of game will win over a fair amount of people. It did me!

Watching the shadows of the spiders on the floors and walls as they crawl around is quite creepy and effective! And, there have been a few "jump scares" too!

I originally rated this game a 9 or 10, but if it doesn't have any giant rats in it, it automatically loses 5 points! :-)

I'm stuck just trying to get past the first room on level 4! I get massacred right away! I think I missed something on level 3. I never did find a bow for my arrows like you did. I did find the mortar and pestle, though.

This game killed of my game programming progress for the weekend. :-(

Matt Barton
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I've been telling folks that

I've been telling folks that only dm and eob fans will likely appreciate this. Others will probably hate it...and go running back to skyrim. ;)

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Bill Loguidice
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It's definitely getting more

It's definitely getting more interesting the further in you go, especially now that I'm getting to use more skills and objects. I'm at the beginning of level 3 now. All of the puzzles thus far have erred on the simple side, but you still feel a great sense of accomplishment at solving them. The polish on this game design continues to impress the heck out of me and it makes a good case for pre-designed levels over procedurally/randomly generated. This is undeniably a home run, though I still wonder how players who were never exposed to Dungeon Master would react...? In any case, this older gamer clearly appreciates the methodical, deliberate pacing and manageable play. Never do I feel overwhelmed by options, controls or anything. It's super refreshing having a total grasp of a game (or at least the illusion of one) without it being dumbed down.

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Matt Barton
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Yes, spears are a "reach

Yes, spears are a "reach weapon" and can be used from the back. I have a bow now for my rogue, though arrows and thrown weapons seem to be in short supply. I think Clok might be right that two mages might be the way to go. Or perhaps a fighter/rogue and 2 mages.

Also, look at your skills to see which one was has the armor proficiencies. "Staff defense" is the one for mages. That caught me by surprise.

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