Amazon has Nintendo 3DS Pre-orders Open Now!

138 replies [Last post]
Bill Loguidice
Bill Loguidice's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Rendering
Nous wrote:

I don't think the battery issues stem from it having to render everything twice (per frame). In fact I am not so sure that once the 3d is switched off everything *still* has to be rendered twice - in some cases there is a subtle drop in frame rate in SF going from 2D to 3D for example.

It would seem a bit of a stretch to think that it can instantly switch between rendering 3D (depth/layers) to rendering 2D (standard 2D), no? I would think that it would always have to render in maximum 3D, then the slider merely adjusts depth. Otherwise there might be a noticeable lag each time you adjust the slider. Of course I don't know any of this for a fact, that's just my assumptions...

n/a
Nous
Nous's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/07/2007
Not so sure
Bill Loguidice wrote:
clok1966 wrote:

battery life -seems there is alot of talk that 3d burns it up quicker (no news) but seems turning it off makes a pretty big difference.
Almost picked it up today... damn im impulsive soemtimes.

I've heard mixed things about that, honestly, in that if you think about it, turning off 3D shouldn't make much, if any difference because the system is still rendering everything twice. It's not like the 3D gets turned off when you move the slider down, it just gets turned off on the display. It still has to do the same processing/rendering since the 3D needs to be active at all times regardless of if you're watching it in 3D or not.

Last night I showed the system to Christina again, and specifically Street Fighter because of how impressive it looks. She was suitably wowed by it, though again commented on the sweet spot thing, which is something that will definitely be the system's Achilles heel during casual usage. For now, for me, there is enough of a wow factor visually to keep me coming back for me. We'll see how long that lasts, and if it doesn't, if the games themselves (how they play) will keep me entertained. That's typically asking a lot for a launch line-up. We'll see.

I don't think the battery issues stem from it having to render everything twice (per frame). In fact I am not so sure that once the 3d is switched off everything *still* has to be rendered twice - in some cases there is a subtle drop in frame rate in SF going from 2D to 3D for example.

n/a
Bill Loguidice
Bill Loguidice's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
More 3DS
clok1966 wrote:

battery life -seems there is alot of talk that 3d burns it up quicker (no news) but seems turning it off makes a pretty big difference.
Almost picked it up today... damn im impulsive soemtimes.

I've heard mixed things about that, honestly, in that if you think about it, turning off 3D shouldn't make much, if any difference because the system is still rendering everything twice. It's not like the 3D gets turned off when you move the slider down, it just gets turned off on the display. It still has to do the same processing/rendering since the 3D needs to be active at all times regardless of if you're watching it in 3D or not.

Last night I showed the system to Christina again, and specifically Street Fighter because of how impressive it looks. She was suitably wowed by it, though again commented on the sweet spot thing, which is something that will definitely be the system's Achilles heel during casual usage. For now, for me, there is enough of a wow factor visually to keep me coming back for me. We'll see how long that lasts, and if it doesn't, if the games themselves (how they play) will keep me entertained. That's typically asking a lot for a launch line-up. We'll see.

n/a
clok1966
Offline
Joined: 01/21/2009
i must have missed something

i must have missed something on SF, looked like sf in 3d (remindes me of the 3d arcade one, the electric skely shock look and all).. while it looks good (best handheld version i have seen) it doesnt really add anything to the game to me..the over the shoulder thing was kinda cool, but all gimic no real gameing substance, alot of SF moves require distance guageing and you simpley cant do it as well with that view. The screen touch for extra buttons works much better then i would have thought. but guess maybe fighting games are getting stale to me. Its too bad about steel diver, it looked pretty good in the video.

i think my biggest gripe is the thumbstick, how you hold it(the unit) makes it sorta a thumb buster for me, to close to edge (but not like it can be elesewhere).. had that with the origitnal PSP too. nature of makeing the unit small... and maybe my age anf flexibility is getting worse :)

battery life -seems there is alot of talk that 3d burns it up quicker (no news) but seems turning it off makes a pretty big difference.
Almost picked it up today... damn im impulsive soemtimes.

Nous
Nous's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/07/2007
Switches and Nubs
Bill Loguidice wrote:
Nous wrote:

Also glad the 3D seems to work reasonably well at least in SOME cases ... now to determine what happens with prolonged sessions and how necessary it may be to switch it off some of the time, even for those games where it works fine.

This MAY be a Wii-mote/Move/Kinect type of thing, where if the 3D is done right, it's wonderful, if it's done badly, it's REALLY bad.

Nous wrote:

Any comments on battery life ?

None. I put it in the included cradle last night and fully charged it before playing. After that I did system setup, played some games, etc., but nothing particularly sustained. I HAVE been leaving it in sleep mode so it can record my steps and use Streepass and all that (fat chance of finding anyone for that to work with in the office). I also haven't touched the brightness (left it at the default, which I HOPE is max) and kept the sound cranked pretty high, so whenever I do hit the battery threshold, it will be an honest assessment, not one of those lame ones where brightness is turned down, wi-fi is off, etc. I'll know more on LOTS of things with this after I live with it for a week.

Not sure if the default is maximum brightness, need to check.

Also, at least you can switch the 3D off where it gets tiring or simply doesn't work well. You couldn't do that with the wiimote/kinect - if the controls were broken that was the end of the story.

n/a
Nous
Nous's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/07/2007
Shen Moo (till the cows come home)
Bill Loguidice wrote:

I can't really give you an example of what the 3DS will EVENTUALLY do that the PSP can't, because right now we're still talking a device with a touchscreen, that even in the launch titles, has significant uses (Steel Diver being the biggest example). Its gyroscope also sees significant usage in the built-in software as well as the launch titles. It also has multiple cameras and a microphone that the PSP lacks. All of these are features, along with the 3D, that have potential to create very different gameplay even when we're talking very similar games. Like the 3D, it doesn't mean that it WILL create different gameplay experiences or that it will even create optimal gameplay experiences, but the potential is certainly there. So really, we are talking a souped up DS here at its heart if you strip away the 3D, which I don't think you should really do because that's a big part of its appeal.

(beating a dead horse here)

You can't give an example, but can you THINK of one?

The only way for the 3DS to act as a souped up DS is for all of its *primary* features to be ignored and cast aside - things like, the emphasis being on 3D, the traditional controls, the analog nub, the graphical capabilities - and have the secondary screen, the touch screen, the one without the 3d or the enhanced graphical capabilities, play a dominant role so that casual users (the DS audience) can directly interact with the game world using touch at all times - avoiding the analog nub and buttons.

Of course the DS itself could also act as a "souped up GBA" but similarly you'd have to leave out all of its *primary* features, those that define it as a platform and determine its audience.

That said, the touch screen on the 3DS has had its "direct interaction with the game world" capabilities stripped off , leaving it with the secondary role of emulating either button presses (hence your suggestion to be replaced with 4 buttons) or shortcutting the traditional "select button" functionality to display map and inventory and such.

The gyroscope - in fact motion controls in general - that are now included also befuddle me; they are mutually exclusive with the main selling feature, 3D, except perhaps for those rare and very limited cases where you can move your body and head WITH the console so as to maintain the exact viewing angle (with the caveats that this implies).

It's clear that while offering a degree of differentiation, perhaps the right word is "convenience", they are certainly neither primary nor gameplay defining features as touch was for the DS compared to the PSP. Touch is a shadow of its former DS self and motion is befuddling in its game design implications, requiring head scratching tradeoffs.

It is clear that the 3DS, with the design choices made, has moved a good distance away from what defined the DS (direct touch manipulation and control of the game world ON the screen in order to create new capabilities and avoid using traditional controls that casual users still completely dismiss) in order to come closer to what defined the PSP as a platform: PSP-like graphical capabilities, emphasis on visuals on a main screen, reduced battery life, increased development costs, traditional controls, analog nub as primary methods of input - with the addition of the "select button" shortcut for maps/inventory and occasionally extra button trigger emulation on the touch screen.

My point is *NOT* that the 3DS is now an exact replica of the PSP - it is that it's moved closer to the PSP and further away from the DS ethos, making it more of a console with strengths and weaknesses more similar to that of the PSP than to those of the DS. Something that I am absolutely convinced will be proven by the games themselves! It is already being proven as we speak.

The open question, for me and you (not the average user who is going to go with the flow and rise and fall with the tides of public perception) remains:

Can you THINK of use cases where playing the same game on the 3DS and on the PSP would be different?

Again, I am not saying there are NO differences. I am saying there are no significant, genre-defining differences as was the case before. The 3DS' overlap with the PSP (in every way - feel, look, controls, more involving console-like content) seems to be a lot higher than the overlap with the DS.

n/a
Bill Loguidice
Bill Loguidice's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
More
Nous wrote:

Also glad the 3D seems to work reasonably well at least in SOME cases ... now to determine what happens with prolonged sessions and how necessary it may be to switch it off some of the time, even for those games where it works fine.

This MAY be a Wii-mote/Move/Kinect type of thing, where if the 3D is done right, it's wonderful, if it's done badly, it's REALLY bad.

Nous wrote:

Any comments on battery life ?

None. I put it in the included cradle last night and fully charged it before playing. After that I did system setup, played some games, etc., but nothing particularly sustained. I HAVE been leaving it in sleep mode so it can record my steps and use Streepass and all that (fat chance of finding anyone for that to work with in the office). I also haven't touched the brightness (left it at the default, which I HOPE is max) and kept the sound cranked pretty high, so whenever I do hit the battery threshold, it will be an honest assessment, not one of those lame ones where brightness is turned down, wi-fi is off, etc. I'll know more on LOTS of things with this after I live with it for a week.

n/a
Nous
Nous's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/07/2007
Sugar coated and Battered
Bill Loguidice wrote:

So I played Street Fighter and Steel Diver during lunch. Street Fighter is STUNNING - the 3D in it is beautiful and effective like in Pilotwings. Steel Diver's 3D is worse than Ridge Racer's (again, still need more time with Ridge Racer to render a more committed verdict) and the mostly touch screen controls are atrocious, as is the game thus far. Steel Diver is a HUGE disappointment for me. I will need to invest time in it though to make sure I fully know it before calling it a dog. Street Fighter - even though I don't care for fighting games - is truly a system showcase. I'm going to try to get into it and learn to control it properly because it's really that impressive looking. It also hints at how awesome a good 3D adventure would be on the system. Like in Pilotwings with the aircraft, there is real "heft" to the characters, like they're solid, when the 3D slider is turned up.

By the way, it has a VERY glossy screen so viewing it in my car during lunch proved a bit of a challenge until I angeled it just right...

Also, I HATE how floppy the hinge is...

From what I'd seen of the game I fully expected Steel Diver to be mediocre, at best (as I have already said before). It would still probably be fine as a $4.99 downloadable game, but a full priced boxed release? .. nah. What was he thinking? (Mr "GDC iPhone gaming rant" Iwata , I'm looking at you)

I'm glad Street Fighter turned out to be excellent, it would've been one of the two games I would've got right now (that and Ghost Recon - but that's just me).

Also glad the 3D seems to work reasonably well at least in SOME cases ... now to determine what happens with prolonged sessions and how necessary it may be to switch it off some of the time, even for those games where it works fine.

Any comments on battery life ?

n/a
Bill Loguidice
Bill Loguidice's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
So I played Street Fighter

So I played Street Fighter and Steel Diver during lunch. Street Fighter is STUNNING - the 3D in it is beautiful and effective like in Pilotwings. Steel Diver's 3D is worse than Ridge Racer's (again, still need more time with Ridge Racer to render a more committed verdict) and the mostly touch screen controls are atrocious, as is the game thus far. Steel Diver is a HUGE disappointment for me. I will need to invest time in it though to make sure I fully know it before calling it a dog. Street Fighter - even though I don't care for fighting games - is truly a system showcase. I'm going to try to get into it and learn to control it properly because it's really that impressive looking. It also hints at how awesome a good 3D adventure would be on the system. Like in Pilotwings with the aircraft, there is real "heft" to the characters, like they're solid, when the 3D slider is turned up.

By the way, it has a VERY glossy screen so viewing it in my car during lunch proved a bit of a challenge until I angeled it just right...

Also, I HATE how floppy the hinge is...

n/a
Bill Loguidice
Bill Loguidice's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
I can't really give you an

I can't really give you an example of what the 3DS will EVENTUALLY do that the PSP can't, because right now we're still talking a device with a touchscreen, that even in the launch titles, has significant uses (Steel Diver being the biggest example). Its gyroscope also sees significant usage in the built-in software as well as the launch titles. It also has multiple cameras and a microphone that the PSP lacks. All of these are features, along with the 3D, that have potential to create very different gameplay even when we're talking very similar games. Like the 3D, it doesn't mean that it WILL create different gameplay experiences or that it will even create optimal gameplay experiences, but the potential is certainly there. So really, we are talking a souped up DS here at its heart if you strip away the 3D, which I don't think you should really do because that's a big part of its appeal.

n/a

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.