Amazon has Nintendo 3DS Pre-orders Open Now!

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Nous
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Not quite
Matt Barton wrote:

Looking at that diagram, Mark, I couldn't help but wonder if someone like this could be automated with a camera. The camera could see your eyes and calculate accordingly, right, with no need for a slider?

That would eat up a lot of CPU power because it has to be done in realtime, constantly analysing the image, recognising where your eyes are and adjusting accordingly.

Of course, this would only fix the angle issue, not the horizontal movement issue (where if you move it horizontally a bit to the left or to the right the 3D effect is lost or worse) because obviously the images are projected at slightly different angles but FROM the same point.

Similarly you wouldn't be able to fix the problem with tilting where you completely lose the 3D effect if you even slightly tilt the device.

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Matt Barton
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Looking at that diagram,

Looking at that diagram, Mark, I couldn't help but wonder if someone like this could be automated with a camera. The camera could see your eyes and calculate accordingly, right, with no need for a slider?

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Bill Loguidice
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RR
Nous wrote:
Bill Loguidice wrote:

I just had a good run on Ridger Racer with the 3D set to 100%. I think I've come around on that game. It's certainly not a great game, but it is fun and quite playable, which is all you can really ask from a launch title.

You mean "come around" to liking it as a game? Or do you mean that you got used to the 3D effect in general, specifically when set to maximum?

Do you find it more playable than the original Ridge Racers PSP launch title ?

Meaning coming around to liking it as a game and was able to enjoy the 3D effect when set to maximum. I never played Ridge Racer on the PSP. I only have/had played Wipeout and Burnout, both of which I liked a great deal. I really haven't enjoyed a Ridge Racer title since the PS1 days. As a racing game, this one will do for now until something more interesting comes out on the 3DS.

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Mark Vergeer
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3D slider and maximum setting

Ridge Racer 3D is a cool title - it contains a lot of the original tracks from various other titles in the series. A great addition for the fans of the series.

The 3D slider on the 3DS changes the angle at which the two images are projected towards your eyes. The spacing between your eyes (that varies between individuals), the level of regular 3D vision your brain is capable of (not all folk use both eyes equally and have true binocular vision) and the distance you want to hold the device at are all parameters that determine the spot where you are able to perceive the 3D image in all its glory.

Just take a look at this:
Could 3DS slider setting be something like this?

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Nous
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Ridge Racer!
Bill Loguidice wrote:

I just had a good run on Ridger Racer with the 3D set to 100%. I think I've come around on that game. It's certainly not a great game, but it is fun and quite playable, which is all you can really ask from a launch title.

You mean "come around" to liking it as a game? Or do you mean that you got used to the 3D effect in general, specifically when set to maximum?

Do you find it more playable than the original Ridge Racers PSP launch title ?

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Bill Loguidice
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I just had a good run on

I just had a good run on Ridger Racer with the 3D set to 100%. I think I've come around on that game. It's certainly not a great game, but it is fun and quite playable, which is all you can really ask from a launch title.

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Nous
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I reckon

Ghost Recon is again highly recommended

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/ghost-recon-shadow-wars-the-b...

By the way, reading back a couple of posts, Bill, I thought you meant that two separate images would need to be rendered "per frame" regardless of the slider's position. I now realise you seem to have been under the impression that there's some kind of intrinsic "3D processing" going on internally, regardless of whether the display mode is set to 3D (being viewed in 3D) or not!

That's not the case at all.

There is nothing "special" about "processing 3D" .. and although I briefly explained it in my response, above, I am not sure I made this particular point clear enough.

Internally all 3D games are "real 3D" anyway, constantly requiring fully 3D processing and calculations. The only difference is whether there is stereoscopic viewing or not (stereoscopic is the right term, *not* 3D)

Stereoscopy basically has nothing to do with "3D processing" - it only has to do with the fact that in order for our brains to visually perceive 3D as it actually is then we need two slightly offset viewpoints which the brain then combines into stereoscopic perception. It's just how our eyes and brains function (that wouldn't work for all species for example).

In order to achieve stereoscopic viewing you need a physical method of separating the two slightly offset viewpoints (think left eye/right eye cameras). That is achieved with the parallax barrier which sits on top of the LCD screen and which sends half of the pixels, going from left to right, in one direction (hopefully reaching the left eye only) and the other half in another direction (hopefully reaching the right eye). This is why in 3D the effective resolution of the screen is 400 x 240 pixels (compared to the PSP's 480 x 272 pixels for example). And this is why the two images sent each to a different eye need to also be rendered from a slightly offset camera setting inside the game; this is done easily by simply offseting the game camera before rendering the second frame. It's literally a case of moving the camera a little bit to the left and rendering the frame again from that point.

In short, there is no inherent "3D processing" or any other kind of special 3D-ness going on ... it's exactly the same as before. The only difference is in the viewing, not in the game processing or the world representation or anything like that.

Hope this makes sense.

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Nous
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3DS Lite, coming soon ?
Bill Loguidice wrote:

Battery life is clearly atrocious. I tried to play during lunch today and I opened it from sleep mode to find the red light flashing. It didn't take very much play after that for it to go completely dead. So this is after using it for what seems like well under an hour total on and off over three days, with maximum brightness and wi-fi on, and sleep mode rather than full off. Not good. The Nyko 3DS battery ($20 by itself or $30 with its own cradle), which has gotten good reviews, is one possible solution, but I don't like the extra bulk it will add. I'll just wait for a 1:1 replacement battery that adds weight.

But we already knew that.

By the way, any difference in battery life between 2D and 3D usage is due to the screen brightness adjustment necessary in 3D mode. Since each eye only gets half of the image (half of the photons = half effective brightness) brightness has to be automatically increased in order to avoid making everything look too dark.

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Bill Loguidice
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Battery life is clearly

Battery life is clearly atrocious. I tried to play during lunch today and I opened it from sleep mode to find the red light flashing. It didn't take very much play after that for it to go completely dead. So this is after using it for what seems like well under an hour total on and off over three days, with maximum brightness and wi-fi on, and sleep mode rather than full off. Not good. The Nyko 3DS battery ($20 by itself or $30 with its own cradle), which has gotten good reviews, is one possible solution, but I don't like the extra bulk it will add. I'll just wait for a 1:1 replacement battery that adds weight.

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Nous
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To put it simply
Bill Loguidice wrote:
Nous wrote:

I don't think the battery issues stem from it having to render everything twice (per frame). In fact I am not so sure that once the 3d is switched off everything *still* has to be rendered twice - in some cases there is a subtle drop in frame rate in SF going from 2D to 3D for example.

It would seem a bit of a stretch to think that it can instantly switch between rendering 3D (depth/layers) to rendering 2D (standard 2D), no? I would think that it would always have to render in maximum 3D, then the slider merely adjusts depth. Otherwise there might be a noticeable lag each time you adjust the slider. Of course I don't know any of this for a fact, that's just my assumptions...

In simple terms: the parallax barrier layer physically sends two different images each at a slightly different angle horizontally so that each image hopefully reaches a different eye. Obviously each one of these images resides in memory (each one having its own "frame buffer" so to speak) and rendered separately by the GPU using a slightly offset camera setting. This part is all software - moving the camera slightly to the left, etc. The distance between the two cameras is adjusted by the slider - when it's "off" the two cameras coincide making everything 2D again - rendering two images becomes unnecessary in this case. That's all there is to it.

Even if the physical implementation necessitated the existence of two images at all times, the software could still simply copy one onto the other in 2D mode without re-rendering from scratch.

But like I said, in any case, that wouldn't have an impact on battery life - there is no difference between keeping the GPU constantly busy rendering one-image-per-frame at 60fps or two-images-per-frame at 30fps. It's not like the GPU has to do twice as much work in 3D compared to 2D - it just takes longer to finish rendering a frame in 3D as there's more work involved (the only thing impacted is the frame rate).

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