Designing a Game: Mutant Resistance

30 replies [Last post]
clok1966
Offline
Joined: 01/21/2009
awwww
Bill Loguidice wrote:

I always considered Minter overrated myself. Very few original ideas out of him. He's good at the trippy stuff, though, if that's your thing and I respect him for his screen saver stuff on Jaguar, Nuon and Xbox.

Awww... Im a big fan of Minter, good interviewee too.. he has some great thoughts.. I always kinda figured he was the BLIZZARD of indie gameing..

Blizz has never had an original idea, only took good ideas and made um better (at least the hits).
3 Vikings-Gobbliins
Diablo-Crusader
Warcraft-Dune2
WoW-EQ (or any other 3D MMORPG that was out before it)

Minter has taken great ideas (tempest, robotron) and made them better with eth colors and music (of course that is only opinion)... Robotorn is really just a updated version of GRIME an ancient freware game for XT pcs..

but to each his own...
And wow error CODE!!!! ugly evil stuff!

Matt Barton
Matt Barton's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/16/2006
Damnit, damnit!! We've got to

Damnit, damnit!! We've got to figure out why this thing is crashing Firefox on my Mac. Here's the error report I'm getting. By the way, it also crashes my Safari.

Process: WebKitPluginHost [736]
Path: /System/Library/Frameworks/WebKit.framework/WebKitPluginHost.app/Contents/MacOS/WebKitPluginHost
Identifier: com.apple.WebKit.PluginHost
Version: 6533 (6533.13)
Build Info: WebKitPluginHost-75331300~12
Code Type: X86 (Native)
Parent Process: WebKitPluginAgent [730]

PlugIn Path: /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/Unity Web Player.plugin/Contents/Frameworks/Mono3.x.x-i386.bundle/Contents/MacOS/Mono
PlugIn Identifier: com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle
PlugIn Version: Mono version 3.1.0f3 (3.1.0f3)

Date/Time: 2010-12-06 12:33:03.886 -0600
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.5 (10H574)
Report Version: 6

Interval Since Last Report: 501071 sec
Crashes Since Last Report: 10
Per-App Interval Since Last Report: 473 sec
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 1
Anonymous UUID: 26DC66F8-038A-473C-9570-628AF264E839

Exception Type: EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Application Specific Information:
abort() called

Thread 0 Crashed: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98283176 __kill + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98283168 kill$UNIX2003 + 32
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9831589d raise + 26
3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9832b9bc abort + 93
4 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x1896f24e mono_handle_native_sigsegv + 327
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9828846b _sigtramp + 43
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98283176 __kill + 10
7 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98283168 kill$UNIX2003 + 32
8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9831589d raise + 26
9 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9832b9bc abort + 93
10 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x18aaedc3 g_logv + 148
11 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x18aaedf3 g_log + 41
12 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x18a94dbf _wapi_shm_semaphores_init + 174
13 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x18a884d6 _wapi_search_handle + 1603
14 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x18a8e4a2 mono_once + 146
15 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x18a88650 _wapi_handle_new + 119
16 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x18a9385c CreateSemaphore + 142
17 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x18a61e3d mono_thread_pool_init + 148
18 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x189b17b1 mono_runtime_init + 56
19 com.OverTheEdge.MonoBundle 0x188eb9ba mini_init + 3731
20 dk.otee.UnityWebPlayerCore 0x151ca72f 0x15015000 + 1791791
21 dk.otee.UnityWebPlayerCore 0x151c468b 0x15015000 + 1767051
22 dk.otee.UnityWebPlayerCore 0x151c473b 0x15015000 + 1767227
23 dk.otee.UnityWebPlayerCore 0x151f06ec UnityBundleStartMemory + 526
24 com.unity.UnityWebPlayer 0x0071bd57 UnityLoader::Load() + 2473
25 com.unity.UnityWebPlayer 0x0071bfa2 UnityLoader::CreateLoader(PluginInstance&) + 204
26 com.unity.UnityWebPlayer 0x0071d9c7 UnityWebPlayerPluginInstance::Tick() + 143
27 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x960faadb __CFRunLoopRun + 8059
28 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x960f8464 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 452
29 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x960f8291 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 97
30 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x97f01f9c RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 392
31 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x97f01d51 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 354
32 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x97f01bd6 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 81
33 com.apple.AppKit 0x90c3878d _DPSNextEvent + 847
34 com.apple.AppKit 0x90c37fce -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 156
35 com.apple.AppKit 0x90bfa247 -[NSApplication run] + 821
36 com.apple.WebKit.PluginHost 0x5fc2340f 0x5fc22000 + 5135
37 com.apple.WebKit.PluginHost 0x5fc2304d 0x5fc22000 + 4173

Thread 1: Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98248982 kevent + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9824909c _dispatch_mgr_invoke + 215
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98248559 _dispatch_queue_invoke + 163
3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x982482fe _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 240
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247d81 _pthread_wqthread + 390
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247bc6 start_wqthread + 30

Thread 2:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247a12 __workq_kernreturn + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247fa8 _pthread_wqthread + 941
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247bc6 start_wqthread + 30

Thread 3:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247a12 __workq_kernreturn + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247fa8 _pthread_wqthread + 941
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247bc6 start_wqthread + 30

Thread 4:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247a12 __workq_kernreturn + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247fa8 _pthread_wqthread + 941
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x98247bc6 start_wqthread + 30

Thread 5:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9822215a semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9824fce5 _pthread_cond_wait + 1066
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9827eac8 pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 47
3 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x97905ecd TSWaitOnConditionTimedRelative + 242
4 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x97905c0b TSWaitOnSemaphoreCommon + 511
5 ...ickTimeComponents.component 0x95388d49 ReadSchedulerThreadEntryPoint + 4698
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9824f85d _pthread_start + 345
7 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9824f6e2 thread_start + 34

Thread 6:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9822215a semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9824fce5 _pthread_cond_wait + 1066
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9827eac8 pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 47
3 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x97905ecd TSWaitOnConditionTimedRelative + 242
4 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x97905c0b TSWaitOnSemaphoreCommon + 511
5 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x97960732 AIOFileThread(void*) + 1127
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9824f85d _pthread_start + 345
7 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9824f6e2 thread_start + 34

Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit):
eax: 0x00000000 ebx: 0x9832b96b ecx: 0xbfff8b2c edx: 0x98283176
edi: 0xa0ae1540 esi: 0xa0ad5b30 ebp: 0xbfff8b48 esp: 0xbfff8b2c
ss: 0x0000001f efl: 0x00000286 eip: 0x98283176 cs: 0x00000007
ds: 0x0000001f es: 0x0000001f fs: 0x00000000 gs: 0x00000037
cr2: 0x18a69599

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Model: iMac11,3, BootROM IM112.0057.B00, 2 processors, Intel Core i5, 3.6 GHz, 8 GB, SMC 1.59f2
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5670, ATI Radeon HD 5670, PCIe, 512 MB
Memory Module: global_name
AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme (0x168C, 0x8F), Atheros 9280: 2.1.14.5
Bluetooth: Version 2.3.8f7, 2 service, 19 devices, 1 incoming serial ports
Network Service: Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
Serial ATA Device: ST31000528AS, 931.51 GB
Serial ATA Device: OPTIARC DVD RW AD-5680H
USB Device: Hub, 0x0424 (SMSC), 0x2514, 0xfd100000
USB Device: USB2.0 Hub, 0x05e3 (Genesys Logic, Inc.), 0x0605, 0xfd140000
USB Device: Keyboard Hub, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x1006, 0xfd130000
USB Device: Apple Keyboard, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x0220, 0xfd132000
USB Device: Built-in iSight, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8502, 0xfd110000
USB Device: IR Receiver, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8242, 0xfd120000
USB Device: Hub, 0x0424 (SMSC), 0x2514, 0xfa100000
USB Device: HP LaserJet 1020, 0x03f0 (Hewlett Packard), 0x2b17, 0xfa140000
USB Device: G500, 0x046d (Logitech Inc.), 0xc068, 0xfa130000
USB Device: BRCM2046 Hub, 0x0a5c (Broadcom Corp.), 0x4500, 0xfa110000
USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8215, 0xfa111000
USB Device: Internal Memory Card Reader, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8403, 0xfa120000

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SelZero
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Control suggestion

Its not perfect, but it gives the idea, (I dont want to work on the details until we know what we are doing) check it out and see what you think. We can tweak from there.

http://xsentrikworlds.com/Prototypes/robocontroltest1.html

SelZero
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Ok Matt I'm going to

Ok Matt I'm going to implement the two halves thing (essentially chop it in half and treat them as two seperate items) + the mouse fire + the wasd "flipping". Then we can play around with it and see how it feels.

Matt Barton
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Joined: 01/16/2006
@bill I do consider myself to

@bill I do consider myself to be very blessed here! Hopefully this will work out. I would love to be able even to make crude prototypes of my game ideas. If I could just put enough together for people to see the concept in action, we might really be able to do some amazing stuff.

@selzero I'm starting to lose my visualization of this, so bear with me. I don't know how feasible it would be, but if we could get up a couple different versions for me to try out, I could make a better decision on this.

My basic idea right now is that the mech is divided into two components--top (cannons) and bottom (legs). The cannon can be swiveled in any direction independently of the legs. On a PC, it is controlled the mouse, with the left button firing the cannon and the scroll wheel (or right mouse button?) selecting among the various weapons.

The legs are controlled either by the arrow keys of WASD. It isn't really essential that it do this, but I thought it would be neat to have a reverse of walk backward function that occurs whenever you try to walk in the opposite direction that the legs are currently pointing. This may or may not play out well (I'd have to see it in action to get a feel for it). It might be better just to have the legs quickly turn around and just run in that direction.

The same pretty much goes for the diagonals. When I try to picture it in my head, it seems like that would just make controlling it too tricky. Maybe it wouldn't be an issue, but since you're basically controlling two different things, it might be best to keep it simple here and just go with 4-way movement. Again, I'd have to see it in action before I could really make an informed decision.

Thanks again for all your hard work on this!!!

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SelZero
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@Bill I think we should all

@Bill I think we should all be designing drawing AND coding it. I think this has the possibility of becoming an epic thread. I will be typing up tutorials at important mile stones.

Ok I was suggesting using the arrow (or wasd) keys for axis movement and if anyone feels brave(!) enough they can use combinations for diagonal but you want to lock down the diagonal? That can be done.

I get how the "backwards slowing down" would work in the current set up, but in the new one we are "running" in the direction selected by the axes it kind of doesnt make sense?

What we can do is make the speed a function of the rotation. So if your running in the exact opposite direction your firing (180), you slow down, if your running at a 90 angle to what your shooting you slow down half as much etc, that makes sense? Because then it becomes like a logical game rule?

Lets get this all thought out before next weekend, looks like its going to be another controller session rather than moving on to the "baddies"

Regarding that, wouldnt it be better to have Gauntlet stye spawn points that we can destroy? Perhaps blobs coming together can form these spawn points, whatever the colors of the blobs that created the spawn points are, the blobs spawned there will be of a mixture (hence stronger gene pool) and the point wll be harder to destroy?

Bill Loguidice
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I always considered Minter

I always considered Minter overrated myself. Very few original ideas out of him. He's good at the trippy stuff, though, if that's your thing and I respect him for his screen saver stuff on Jaguar, Nuon and Xbox.

I didn't realize you were just designing the game, Matt. I had assumed you were coding it too. You certainly lucked out in that arrangement as there are tons of people who would kill to be able to do that. I hope this works out for both of you and wish you the best! Hopefully I can be inspired to finally do something in GameMaker...

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Matt Barton
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Joined: 01/16/2006
Oh, great, I'm being compared

Oh, great, I'm being compared to Minter already. ;)

Come to think of it, there is a resemblance.

Jeff MinterJeff Minter

Anyway, it only makes sense (to me) that it would walk backwards more slowly than forwards (let's say half as fast). That might make the game more challenging, too, since I imagine you'll be doing quite a bit of firing forward as you're moving backwards trying to avoid the aliens.

It seems like moving diagonal movement will be very difficult using WASD, though easy enough with the arrow keys or numeric keypad. It does seem like a dual analog would be the best way to control it. I'm wondering if it make more sense just not to allow diagonal movement at all, making the left stick (or walking) strictly 4-way. It doesn't make sense realistically, but it would simplify the controls, and we could adjust the alien movement and general difficult to compensate.

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SelZero
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Joined: 04/23/2010
As I said in the first post I

As I said in the first post I chose "rotating" over "turn and run", we can do it the other way, if the user wants to run diagonally they can do that by holding down 2 axis. I think the "direct opposite slows down" is a bit confusing to the user? Why doesnt it just flip and start running in that direction? Is there an example of this somewhere I can check out, i need to understand the feel of it.

This game is beginning to remind me of one of my all time faves "Llamatron" on the Atari ST. I seem to remember the developer of that was a very "unique" :) kindah guy.

Matt Barton
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Joined: 01/16/2006
Damnit. This thing is still

Damnit. This thing is still crashing Firefox every time on my Mac. I've tried re-installing it several times to no avail. Do you know of any issues that could be causing it? It's a fresh Mac, so it shouldn't have any software conflicts.

At any rate, I'd like to see it with the separable controls, since that would make it feel more like Robotron in my opinion (the original used two different joysticks, one for movement, one for fire). The Mech makes a lot of since with that configuration, too, and there could be a cool spinning sound when it rotates its cannon.

Also, instead of rotating, is it possible to make the Mech automatically turn and run in the direction of the arrow key or WASD as long as it wasn't reverse? If you did hit the reverse direction, it could back up a bit slower than it runs forward. However, if you hit an adjacent direction, it just spins quickly in that direction and moves in that direction. I think for simplicity's sake, it might make sense to avoid having it move diagonally. You can aim and shoot in any direction using the mouse, but walking movement is limited to X and Y movement.

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