How often do you pirate?

warning: Creating default object from empty value in /home/buckman/public_html/neo/modules/advanced_forum/advanced_forum.module on line 492.
58 replies [Last post]
Nathaniel Tolbert
Nathaniel Tolbert's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/06/2010
I only have 10 gigabytes of

I only have 10 gigabytes of porn...... Wait wait that's not what this thread is about at all! I agree that no matter how bad a game is, companies will state that the reason the game didn't do well was because of piracy. It's a way they can cover their own ass, but still it doesn't excuse the fact that people use the whole 'the game is crap so I won't buy it.' but they'll still torrent it and play it. If the game is so crappy, then why the hell are you playing it at all?!? It has been said for a long time that piracy is what killed the Amiga and the Atari ST/Falcon computers, and after tallying up the amount of pirated games that came with my Atari ST I'm inclined to agree. Yes, more than 50% of the pirated games I got with the Atari ST I also have a boxed version that's generally not even open, but still one person had over 100 pirated games. 100! When would I find time to play that many different games? I struggle with the 4 or 5 games that I have bought recently (btw if you are a adventure gamer and you love the broken sword games, check out the re-release of Shadows of the Templars - Director's Cut. Really really good.) let along to pirate 100 games to play over a period of 4 years (that's how long he had the ST before getting a PC.) Piracy is a big issue, but there aren't any easy ways to resolve it. Piracy isn't just happening to games, it happens to all software, with OSes being the #1 pirated software piece. If people can justify stealing the OS, how can they not justify stealing software? At this point, I'm not certain anything can really be done about piracy as it is firmly entrenched. Piracy has been around since the dawn of computers, and more recently it has spread (rather virally) to the consoles at a rapid pace. What does this signify? I understand not wanting to pay $60 for a game, but with consoles, all you have to do is wait, and it will be $20 used shortly anyway. I think the whole thing stems from a very human condition. We all want something for nothing, and software is easily gotten for nothing. You don't even have to look that hard! Any search engine will find it for you! I was looking up the name of the Kaptain Brawe game cause I couldn't remember it and the 3rd hit on the search was a torrent to illegally download it. The [/b]3rd hit [/b]. At this point I don't know what do, but I can say this much, there is no way people can justify that it's right to pirate games. It's harmful to the companies, and it hurts the industry and with independent game companies it stifles creativity cause we all know that the EA and Activision's of the world are going to continue to pump out the same derivative junk until it bleeds out our ears, eyes, nose, and mouth.

n/a
clok1966
Offline
Joined: 01/21/2009
A subject I am well versed

A subject I am well versed in. I was a "real" pirate for a time. Not the one who took the goods, I was the one who "cracked" the game (in another life almost, ..good god... so long ago). I started on the C-64 ( no affilation then, did it on my own for fun (err, fun? no, a freind would lend me his floppies and if I could copy um and crack u I had free games!). I actually joined ANGELS in the amiga days and a couple releases "cracks" credited to me. Warez groups are like Teenagers, somedays everybody loves everybody, next day they are all hate for each other. Sadly most of the old romantic memories are pretty skewed. Yes there was some fun compations, but there was far more backstabbing to get release, to move to larger groups, etc than fun. At least that I remeber. Dont get me wrong, as I was a US based person (and most of them where not) IRC and such, I had little contact in Real Life with any of them, some phone calls, and one time a few of them came over and we where all in LA for a weekend (that was fun!). My days as a "real" Pirate where short, maybe a year. I made some good contacts for when I moved to the standard pirate ways.
After the cracking days where over I ran a FTP for awhile with a friend. We actually used the local collage's computers.. Back in the early 90's the mail cache was a gret place to hide crap. We grew into 3 sites after awhile. There is sad part to all this (and a real eye opener for me) we also ran a BBS at the time, it was for all things Pirate. the problem is it was on the town we lived in Bus service Mainframe (ok, mainframe is bad choice of words, a coupel PC networked). Kids, access for people ho contributed and all things like that. soon a kid was mad about stuff and reported it. My freind who was head of IT for city was fired, hard lesson for him, was a great job. Eye opener for me (sorta, being young and stupid is hard to overcome). I ran my own personal one of my own PC for about 3 years after that. I was one of the first to get DSL in my area so it was pretty easy. I still have contact with few of the old "scene" people who did demos and cracked games (a couple still do).
As far as pirated stuff, its was pretty much the only way I got games for many years. I did purchese 5-10 games a year for my PC's, the ones i really loved (Westwood RTS games, iD games, several big name RPG's). Consoles.. same story, the carts that took memory cards or floppies, etc.. My DS has a R4 in it, its loaded up with stuff, that was looked at for maybe a grand total of 1-2 minutes each. My PSP is same. All moddable consoles are modded (err except the PS3, half the price of the unit it to much). I have 3-360's, one modded, one for online and one spare (I have fixed a few RROD, and kept one).

But in the last 1-3 years.. almost no pirateing of any kind (music, games, etc..) STEAM has made game buying simple, easy, and DRM (to me) transparent, updates are done in background when my pc is not in use, sales make games cheap. As for console.. my Wii was the last one to really get no legit games ( i got alot of pirate stuff, looked at it and never played it). I modded my 360, saw it worked with a backup (the nice word for pirate copy) and never got any others.

PC wise, MAFIA2, KANE AN LYNCH2... both which I own for the 360, but hate console controlers. Sadly as some have mentioned the loops you jump through to make them work nowdays is really not worth it. games are so buggy and need updates so often, no cracked games work from the start, some bug will ruin it. MAFIA 2 will be bought on steam when there is a sale.. pirate copy has been removed.

I in no stretch think its right. I wont justify it in any way, its wrong I know its wrong. So is speeding, and I do that sometimes.

BUT if i was going to justify (and Im not). All the pirateing has made me a huge game addict, i need the next game, even if i dont play it. Nowdays i can easliy say I have bought and paid for more game int he last 3 years then in all the years leading up to them. My 360 collection is 300+ games (no laughing since I have only played 70 of them...ever!) my PS3 is at about 100 games, My STEAM is at over 200...
My addiction to "free" gaming has me paying nowdays.I am pretty sure if my limited cash as a youth had me only playing games I could afford, I simply wouldnt have bought games and I would have done other things.. And most likely would not be buying any games nowdays, as I would not have grown up loving them, and would been like alot of my "grown up" friends, and had no interest.

Patrik (not verified)
Multiple answers.
Matt Barton wrote:

All of your justifications sound like a big old pile of bullshit to me, Patrik. Sure, every game "sucks" to you when feeling that way means you can justify not buying the damn thing. And as far as feeling ripped off goes, well, you should have the read the reviews of the game first and trusted their opinion. But wait, you say--how can you trust those review sites when they are heavily funded by advertising from the same companies whose games they so objectively review? Hmm...Guess you just gotta have faith!

On the other hand, if you do feel like you got burned by a game, that's a damned good reason not to buy another one from that company. Fallout: New Vegas has too many bugs? Fine, don't play any more Obsidian games. But you still want to play one to see how mediocre it is? Aw, go ahead and pirate it. Lame!

There's only one justification for piracy: it's fun!

I've been subscribing to PC Gamer for about 9-10 years now, and while I do value their opinion experiences vary wildly from person to person; Even one you normally trust on the subject at hand. Especially when you don't have a chance to actually regret your purchase, buying a game for 50€ is a big part of my disposable income, and games with demos are far apart nowadays. I did for instance try the Mafia 2 demo before purchasing it, but it definetly was'nt representative of the end product.

A little anecdote; I bought both Alpha Protocol and F;NV this year, and while AP was bugged to all hell and poorly optimized I felt that I got my moneys worth; My experience was much better than that of the reviewer whos opinion I trusted. (Did'nt pirate it first though, bought it in faith, wich much lead to my decision to buy Mafia 2.) F:NV I have'nt gotten any gamebreaking bugs or CTD's wich also goes from many reviewers experiences from what I've read.

Bill Loguidice wrote:

I don't get the idea of using piracy as a try before you buy type of thing. Do we go into a movie theater, watch the whole movie and then decide if we want to pay based on whether or not we liked it? No, of course not. Do we read a book from beginning to end and then if we like it, we decide if we wish to pay? No, of course not. And on and on and on.

Again, there COULD have been that justification in the past, but if you can't make a REASONABLE buying decision from countless FREE reviews on the Web, countless FREE videos on the Web, demos, rentals, etc., available to us today (information is power), then the ONLY excuse is that you really just like free stuff and you don't care who you hurt, and it's OK with you that you're a thief.

There's no universal law that says every purchase you make has to be a good one, either. Sometimes we buy things we don't like. You know what, you earn some more money and try again next time. Sometimes we make bad decisions. That's life.

Well, I disagree. I don't go to the movies though, but consume quite a few books: Libraries! Wonderfull institutions wich you can go to and lend a book and read it without paying for it, alternatively read a bit of it and then decide to buy it. You can even lend some console games there.

I don't view myself wholly as a thief though, but "legally" I might be considered one. I don't get a different experience from paying or not paying for the experience of the game (With possibly the DRM bit excluded, don't have to worry about Ubisoft getting hacked for instance, bunch of tossers whom did it by the way), and I do buy plenty of them.

The last part there of your message does'nt really add up to how things work over here, since we have pretty decent consumer protection laws and institutions that help you out here to prevent that from happening. They can't help you with software though, from what I know.

While the analogy does'nt work in it's entirety, you don't buy a car without testing it first - likewise I don't like to buy games that I don't know what I get.

Nathaniel Tolbert wrote:

You never would have bought them, but it was okay to download them and play them for free? This sounds like a petulant child who thinks they should get everything they want and not have to suffer the consequences. I agree with Matt, (...) Being pissed off by DRM is a catch 22 situation. You know why there is DRM in the game? Because too many people like you have pirated the company's games in the past and they are trying to protect their lively-hood. If someone threatened your job and your way of life you know damn well you would fight for it. There is a reason why the term piracy was coined for the trading, downloading and cracking of games. Pirates were known for their ruthlessness and blatant disregard for anything other than themselves and what they wanted and went to great extremes to get what it was that they wanted. Piracy isn't going away, but to justify your piracy by basically saying, 'I wouldn't pirate if there wasn't DRM, and the games weren't crap.' is a lie, because what you are really saying is, 'I wouldn't pay for a game ever if I can get it for free. Why should I pay for something?' I have to wonder if you've ever created something and had it ripped off, because if you had, then you wouldn't be talking about piracy the way you are. I understand that most have pirated something in the past at some point in time, and to talk like how I am is very hypocritical but as we get older and create anything of worth, and to then see someone take our blood sweat and tears and rip it off is very frustrating. And as that stands, I understand why companies attempt to protect their products. DRM sucks, we know, but don't use it to justify piracy because that's why DRM exists in the first place.

Ofcourse I know why the DRM is there, but it's pretty damn obvious that DRM's does'nt work - it just ends up "borking" things for the people that buy the games. The term piracy was coined, as far as I know, when cassette tapes showed up, and very much used to dramatize their use. They shouted doomsday prophecies back then aswell, wich did'nt come through.

I'm sadly not a creator in that way, I'm a simple labourer as it is, but it is quite possible I would be pissed off if I was - I might be in some paralell universe. If, for arguements sake we assume that I did create a game and sold it, and it became pirated - I would'nt be pissed of with people that copied it for the same reasons I've listed. I would be pissed if people lauded the game and did'nt send a penny my way though. If I were to sell a game though, I would most likely use the Shareware style of payment or similar.

The "why should you pay for something?" is really easy to answer actually; To motivate the good people to continue their good work. You're putting words in my mouth there, I do pay for the products I enjoy, I don't pay for the ones I don't enjoy though - simple as that. Most games I have'nt bought and enjoyed was Doom, Duke 3D and those older games that was released when I was under 13, games that my father actually got for himself, and before I was actually allowed to have any money whatsoever.

Matt Barton
Matt Barton's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/16/2006
It's not really stealing in

It's not really stealing in the traditional sense, though. If you steal a CD, that store has one fewer CD to sell. If you download a pirated copy, the store still has the same number of CDs. You're not stealing. The only thing you're doing is wrong is violating copyright. Some might consider it the same, but it's definitely not the same from a legal standpoint.

n/a
TripHamer
TripHamer's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/31/2010
Obviously, you can reason piracy...

But you can't really justify it. Yes it is stealing. Plain and simple. And there's no two ways about it. Weather it's the latest Call Of Duty or ET for the Atari 2600, it's still stealing. So I think what we're discussing here is just reasoning...and at what level someone will pirate something at. We all reason things to "justify" them on some level, in some way.

Perhaps that's what it all comes down to.

n/a
Bill Loguidice
Bill Loguidice's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Maybe publishers would bitch

Maybe publishers would bitch and moan regardless, but let's be honest, people will pirate regardless, so in a weird way, the publishers are ALWAYS right bitching about piracy. No matter what, SOME sales were lost. That's the issue and those lost sales could mean the difference between a product being a success or the product failing and the whole company going under. Yes, we've all pirated (some still do), but it's nothing we should ever be proud of or think for a second it has a justifiable place.

I know with our books, Vintage Games and Wii Fitness for Dummies, especially the latter, piracy was RAMPANT. I bet if I had one sale for every 10 copies pirated of Wii Fitness for Dummies, that would have been maybe another 1,000 sales, which could have made a huge difference in the book's chances of surviving through this holiday season. Hell, there's nothing more deflating to a creator than seeing people post links on TWITTER to a pirated copy of your creation (in this case, our book). It's one thing to do it quietly among a few of your friends, it's another to shout it from the rooftops for the world to see and there be no consequences.

n/a
Matt Barton
Matt Barton's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/16/2006
Both of you guys are wrong.

Both of you guys are wrong. Publishers would bitch and moan about piracy NO MATTER WHAT. It's just too easy and obvious of a way to blame lackluster sales. Damnit, this licensed piece of shovelware isn't selling like gangbusters. Why not? Could it be that word got out that this game sucked??? No, of course not, it's those GODDAMN PIRATES! It's no telling how many millions of copies of Daikatana would have sold if it hadn't been for those goddamn f**** sons of b**** pirates!

Hey, boss, could it be that the game wasn't any good? "You're fired, twit!" Next time we'll get the best DRM money can buy. If our next game fails, well it's those pirates! They beat the DRM! Wait, boss. This was a console game? "Well, didn't you know that 99.9% of consoles these days are modded???"

It's too damned convenient.

On the flip side, anyone who claims to use piracy to try-before-you-buy is a damned liar. Sure, maybe they got hooked on a game they pirated, but the crack was so bad that it kept crashing, so they bought it. Or maybe they stumbled upon an old game they pirated long ago in a bargain bin (or used) and bought it, and suddenly feel so righteous. F*** hypocrite. Just admit you like stealing and enjoy pumping pirated games through your torrents onto your 800 terrabyte pirate special external. And, BTW, how many of those 799 gigs of porno movies did you buy?

n/a
Nathaniel Tolbert
Nathaniel Tolbert's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/06/2010
That is BS and you know it
Patrik wrote:

I can ramble plenty of games that me and my friends would never have bought if we did'nt have the chance to play them first, and quite a few games that we would'nt have bought if we had the ability to play them before buying.

You never would have bought them, but it was okay to download them and play them for free? This sounds like a petulant child who thinks they should get everything they want and not have to suffer the consequences. I agree with Matt, you're pissed off because a game you bought sucked? Sorry, better wait and read the reviews next time. Reviews look biased? Find sites that have a user review section and look at the lay of that. Being pissed off by DRM is a catch 22 situation. You know why there is DRM in the game? Because too many people like you have pirated the company's games in the past and they are trying to protect their lively-hood. If someone threatened your job and your way of life you know damn well you would fight for it. There is a reason why the term piracy was coined for the trading, downloading and cracking of games. Pirates were known for their ruthlessness and blatant disregard for anything other than themselves and what they wanted and went to great extremes to get what it was that they wanted. Piracy isn't going away, but to justify your piracy by basically saying, 'I wouldn't pirate if there wasn't DRM, and the games weren't crap.' is a lie, because what you are really saying is, 'I wouldn't pay for a game ever if I can get it for free. Why should I pay for something?' I have to wonder if you've ever created something and had it ripped off, because if you had, then you wouldn't be talking about piracy the way you are. I understand that most have pirated something in the past at some point in time, and to talk like how I am is very hypocritical but as we get older and create anything of worth, and to then see someone take our blood sweat and tears and rip it off is very frustrating. And as that stands, I understand why companies attempt to protect their products. DRM sucks, we know, but don't use it to justify piracy because that's why DRM exists in the first place.

n/a
Bill Loguidice
Bill Loguidice's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
I don't get the idea of using

I don't get the idea of using piracy as a try before you buy type of thing. Do we go into a movie theater, watch the whole movie and then decide if we want to pay based on whether or not we liked it? No, of course not. Do we read a book from beginning to end and then if we like it, we decide if we wish to pay? No, of course not. And on and on and on.

Again, there COULD have been that justification in the past, but if you can't make a REASONABLE buying decision from countless FREE reviews on the Web, countless FREE videos on the Web, demos, rentals, etc., available to us today (information is power), then the ONLY excuse is that you really just like free stuff and you don't care who you hurt, and it's OK with you that you're a thief.

There's no universal law that says every purchase you make has to be a good one, either. Sometimes we buy things we don't like. You know what, you earn some more money and try again next time. Sometimes we make bad decisions. That's life.

n/a
Matt Barton
Matt Barton's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/16/2006
All of your justifications

All of your justifications sound like a big old pile of bullshit to me, Patrik. Sure, every game "sucks" to you when feeling that way means you can justify not buying the damn thing. And as far as feeling ripped off goes, well, you should have the read the reviews of the game first and trusted their opinion. But wait, you say--how can you trust those review sites when they are heavily funded by advertising from the same companies whose games they so objectively review? Hmm...Guess you just gotta have faith!

On the other hand, if you do feel like you got burned by a game, that's a damned good reason not to buy another one from that company. Fallout: New Vegas has too many bugs? Fine, don't play any more Obsidian games. But you still want to play one to see how mediocre it is? Aw, go ahead and pirate it. Lame!

There's only one justification for piracy: it's fun!

n/a

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.