Digital Collection

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retroc64
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Although keeping a physical collection of Commodore 64 hardware and software is a wonderful hobby, some of us (well, me!) do not have the money or space to dedicate to it. After watching Bill's incredible video of his collection I realized that a virtual (3D) room filled with the actual images of each software box that you could pick up, rotate, and even open would be a cool substitute.

Then I realized that complete scans of box art is hard to come by. Has there been any major attempts to digitize (in high-res) the box art, manuals and other stuff included with the software? Isn't this stuff just as important historically as the software code itself?

Seb
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More cool stuff...
Seb
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this might help?
Matt Barton
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Moby Games is Ripping off its Contributors
Bill Loguidice wrote:

I'd rather have that though than go to extra effort to watermark my posted materials just to thwart a few unsavory characters--why should the 98% of the good people out there suffer poor presentation because of them?

I couldn't agree more. I guess what bothers me especially about sites like Moby Games is that the screenshots, box shots, etc. were taken by other people without any form of compensation. Then Moby turns around and claims full copyright of them, watermarking them and forbidding any other use. That's just fundamentally wrong in my opinion, and I'm ashamed of their behavior. It's wrong.

It'd be different to me if a site had its own paid staff who took their own screen shots. I could see not giving those freely to the public, because the site had to pay to get them. However, in a case where the site is getting stuff for free, it's just flat out wrong.

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Bill Loguidice
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Effort, copyright, time = money, etc.
Matt Barton wrote:

Amen, brother. If I were a copyright owner, I'd go after them with diligence just because of that. As far as I'm concerned stuff like screenshots or photos of box art, etc., ought to be in the public domain. I'm sorry, but it doesn't require any creativity to hit "PRINT SCREEN" during a game to take a screenshot and upload it to a website. The creativity was done the animators and graphic artists, not the idiot with the keyboard.

I suppose it is a bit of thin ice though. If we said that the game developer ought to have copyright control over screenshots, then they could easily forbid critical reviews from using any such images. That could have a drastic effect on the reliability of reviews, since only the ones that sucked up could have access to the images.

Obviously, if the photographer has to put a lot of work into arranging the materials, lighting, and so on, that's creative effort and ought to be protected. Simply putting a box into a scanner doesn't seem like the same thing to me.

It is at least some effort to photograph, scan or screenshot something, so I believe that a minimal amount of respect needs to be paid to the person or person(s) doing it in the form of credit, i.e., if you pull material sourced from somewhere or someone else, you should acknowledge it. At the same time, I think things like watermarks defeat the purpose of presenting the material in the way it should be. I do a lot of time consuming photographic and video work (and obviously written) and would be pissed if someone "stole" that without acknowledging my effort (as the source). I'd rather have that though than go to extra effort to watermark my posted materials just to thwart a few unsavory characters--why should the 98% of the good people out there suffer poor presentation because of them?



Wii: 1345 2773 2048 1586 | PS3: ArmchairArcade
Bill Loguidice, Managing Director | Armchair Arcade, Inc.

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Matt Barton
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Copyrights
Calibrator wrote:

Re consolidation:
Some sites (MobyGames or 'Hall of Light' for Amiga games come to my mind) are already water-marking their pictures (box-scans and screen shots) because they suspect that others rip off their work.
It's always funny that the sites that give a shit on copyright try to prevent others from stealing their own stuff...

Amen, brother. If I were a copyright owner, I'd go after them with diligence just because of that. As far as I'm concerned stuff like screenshots or photos of box art, etc., ought to be in the public domain. I'm sorry, but it doesn't require any creativity to hit "PRINT SCREEN" during a game to take a screenshot and upload it to a website. The creativity was done the animators and graphic artists, not the idiot with the keyboard.

I suppose it is a bit of thin ice though. If we said that the game developer ought to have copyright control over screenshots, then they could easily forbid critical reviews from using any such images. That could have a drastic effect on the reliability of reviews, since only the ones that sucked up could have access to the images.

Obviously, if the photographer has to put a lot of work into arranging the materials, lighting, and so on, that's creative effort and ought to be protected. Simply putting a box into a scanner doesn't seem like the same thing to me.

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Calibrator
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Trends?
Bill Loguidice wrote:

AtariAge does that, though majoritively for the Atari 2600 and other Atari systems. It's a shame there's not a universal format and repository, but that's unlikely to happen. For better or worse, everyone seems to be working on their own.

Some sites at least link to each other so one can look up the conversions pretty quickly.

Re consolidation:
Some sites (MobyGames or 'Hall of Light' for Amiga games come to my mind) are already water-marking their pictures (box-scans and screen shots) because they suspect that others rip off their work.
It's always funny that the sites that give a shit on copyright try to prevent others from stealing their own stuff...

take care,
Calibrator

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Bill Loguidice
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Not much teamwork or consolidation
Harmik wrote:

A lot of sites have some but not all, i would love a site that had the scan of the front,back and manual for Atari,Coleco,Nintendo,Sega Etc you can find a bit here and a bit there but not all in one place.

AtariAge does that, though majoritively for the Atari 2600 and other Atari systems. It's a shame there's not a universal format and repository, but that's unlikely to happen. For better or worse, everyone seems to be working on their own.



Wii: 1345 2773 2048 1586 | PS3: ArmchairArcade
Bill Loguidice, Managing Director | Armchair Arcade, Inc.

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Harmik
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Yes

A lot of sites have some but not all, i would love a site that had the scan of the front,back and manual for Atari,Coleco,Nintendo,Sega Etc you can find a bit here and a bit there but not all in one place.

Calibrator
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Some links
retroc64 wrote:

Then I realized that complete scans of box art is hard to come by. Has there been any major attempts to digitize (in high-res) the box art, manuals and other stuff included with the software? Isn't this stuff just as important historically as the software code itself?

There are of course "collection sites" for specific systems which often have digitized box art:

Amiga:
http://www.lemonamiga.com/

Apple II (rare stuff - not much but much more detailed):
http://gue.vintagegaming.org/

Apple IIgs:
http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/

Atari 8-Bit & Consoles:
http://www.atarimania.com/main_database.php?MENU=8&TYPE_CODE=G

C-64:
http://www.lemon64.com/

PC (abandonware):
http://www.abandonia.com/index.php

Sinclair Spectrum:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseek.cgi

take care,
Calibrator

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Bill Loguidice
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Great, great idea Stede

An Uber Online Museum is a great idea - one where you can not necessarily walk around it (I don't like that paradigm) - but certainly one where when you select an entry, you can manipulate a full resolution 3D model of the item and remove the insides and do the same, etc., as well as (as long as we're dreaming) immediately play the game in a browser-based emulator with full virtual keyboard/controls that match the original (or optimal) target system (and also download the ROM image for your own usage on the real hardware). No doubt that will come someday, particularly when 3D scanning technology takes the next technological leap in both availability and cost, but right now, it's just not practical. That would also take a huge community effort, a la something along the lines of Wikipedia, though certainly something more focused and stringent (and well above what something like Moby Games offers).

All this talk has left me to reflect a bit on my own somewhat haphazard method of sharing my collection with the world. I know I don't have the time or energy to do more, though, but it would make me sad from a legacy standpoint if when I passed my collection fell into disuse/disarray without doing more from a true archiving standpoint. Even AA is not future-safe, as it only exists on the host's server and whatever backups we keep. Nevertheless, that is a universal problem of simple human existence, so it's not something that's necessarily unique to videogame/computing/technology collecting. After all, it's not like we have 3D models/disassembly/archiving of the vast majority of anything else "collectible", be it stamps, coins, cars, whatever.



Wii: 1345 2773 2048 1586 | PS3: ArmchairArcade
Bill Loguidice, Managing Director | Armchair Arcade, Inc.

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