Microsoft fixes the three red ring Xbox 360 for free

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Bill Loguidice
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As they should: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/petermooreletter.htm

Personally I've never had an issue with Microsoft or Sony fixing my console issues for free or nominal cost, and that's the way it should stay, frankly.

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forcefield58
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Forgot to mention...
Mark Vergeer wrote:

Well, the new generation of x360's will be sporting chips with a smaller die, 65nm instead of the current 95nm which no doubt will result in less power consumption and cooler operation. There's even rumors about the power brick being integrated into the next build of the x360. So less power consumption does make the whole thing a little more eco-friendly.

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Mark Vergeer - Editor / Pixelator
Armchair Arcade, Inc. Gamertag
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One other thing that our local Best Buy gaming rep told me was as long as you had the 2-year extended warranty, you don't really have to have a problem with your current Xbox, you can bring it in at anytime and get a new one, only once that is. What alot of people are doing is waiting until new releases come out (Xbox Elite) and taking their systems in for a replacement. Then they buy a new 2-year warranty and keep the process going and ending up with a system that's never more than 2 years old!

Games in my current rotation: Spiderman3, Chromehounds, Oblivion, Crackdown, Lost Planet
Xbox 360 Gamer Tag: force58

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Mark Vergeer
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65 nm chips in next gen x360's

Well, the new generation of x360's will be sporting chips with a smaller die, 65nm instead of the current 95nm which no doubt will result in less power consumption and cooler operation. There's even rumors about the power brick being integrated into the next build of the x360. So less power consumption does make the whole thing a little more eco-friendly.

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Mark Vergeer - Editor / Pixelator
Armchair Arcade, Inc. Gamertag
========================

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forcefield58
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The Saving Grace...
davyK wrote:

I find it hard to credit that anyone would accept anything that has had to be replaced twice and is still faced with the same probability of it failing again.

I wouldn't care how good the games are - its like talking about how fast a car can go and how good the entertainment system is while accepting that you have to keep bringing it back to the dealer for repair or renewal. Great games are of little use to me when the console doesn't work.

Its a sick joke being played on us and any notion of buying one has definitely left me. I really would like one but find this whole thing unacceptable. Its probably better for me to wait for some sort of revision but I'm not holding my breath waiting for Microsoft to swallow its pride.

Well, the only good thing about the whole deal is that with all the issues regarding the hardware, I haven't had to pay a penny to MS to get the replacements. I just walked into Best Buy and picked up a new one the same day the unit broke. You have to weigh the good with the bad...Xbox Live is definitely one of the good things.

I do still have a concern with the operating system and the hard drive though. Everybody knows about having to defrag a hard drive on a regular basis to keep things arranged properly and to ensure maximum performance. How does the drive on the 360 get defrag'd? I do alot of downloading from Xbox Live and an equal amount of deleting, plus the ton of saved games. You have to imagine that at some point things are going to start to "slow" down. I can't imagine MS could do this remotely. I would also imagine it would be an even bigger issue with the new 100Gb drive that's out now. What do you guys think?

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davyK
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I find it hard to credit

I find it hard to credit that anyone would accept anything that has had to be replaced twice and is still faced with the same probability of it failing again.

I wouldn't care how good the games are - its like talking about how fast a car can go and how good the entertainment system is while accepting that you have to keep bringing it back to the dealer for repair or renewal. Great games are of little use to me when the console doesn't work.

Its a sick joke being played on us and any notion of buying one has definitely left me. I really would like one but find this whole thing unacceptable. Its probably better for me to wait for some sort of revision but I'm not holding my breath waiting for Microsoft to swallow its pride.

forcefield58
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Xbox 360 vs PS3 and 360 Position
Mark Vergeer wrote:

It is all because of the bad position of the heat sink on the graphics-chip beeing too close to the dvd-drive so that air-circulation impaired. I wonder if a vertical x360-position is better in that aspect?
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Mark Vergeer - Editor / Pixelator
Armchair Arcade, Inc.
Xboxlive gametag
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Even with all the issues with the hardware on the 360 I wouldn't trade mine in on a PS3 for the reasons Bill gave below. I'm on my third 360 and so far the one I have now has actually lasted almost 8 months and is still working great. I use it at least 2-4 hours per day and haven't noticed near the number of "lock-ups" or "heat-related issues" that had plagued the system from launch. I don't there is any comparison with the games or the online experience when comparing Xbox to Sony...in my opinion.

Since my first 2 360's bit the dust I've had this one laying horizontal on the top of my entertainment center with the power supply way down at the bottom. No noise or heat issues, like I had with the previous 2 that were used in the vertical position. I still wonder if using it vertically actually causes problems or if it is just my imagination.

Cheers

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Mark Vergeer
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graphics heatsink...

It is all because of the bad position of the heat sink on the graphics-chip beeing too close to the dvd-drive so that air-circulation impaired. I wonder if a vertical x360-position is better in that aspect?
========================
Mark Vergeer - Editor / Pixelator
Armchair Arcade, Inc.
Xboxlive gametag
========================

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davyK
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Apoligies for NES/Famicom

Apoligies for my NES/Famicom mixup which may have caused confusion - some games made the Famicom freeze which made Nintendo undertake an investigation which resulted in a product recall.

I don't want anyone to think I'm holding up Nintendo as an example to all. Though their product recall is something that should be admired - it is expected - and I would expect any product to be recalled with the apparant failure rate of the 360. It is a design flaw no matter what the reason, and I would not accept this level of service given the amount of money I would be expected to pay for the thing.

We've been over the zero resistance loading discussion before - it was a big mistake. Maybe it was part of Nintendo's strategy to position the NES away from the perceptions of games consoles and all that meant in the US at the time. To be fair it was only a problem with me when I started buying pre-owned cartridges that were not boxed. Nintendo did release a cleaning kit (maybe it should have been free or very cheap) and that did fix the problem, and the re-release didn't use that mechanism.

I have no issues with mistakes - its how rudimentary a mistake it is, how it impacts the consumer and how it is dealt with that bothers me.

It seems to me that the 360 is badly designed which is shoddy. It means the machine being returned for repair and consumers getting different experiences with different machines returned to them in some instances. It is very poor. Microsoft are great at dealing at the corporate level (I authorise large orders with them for corporate software licence deals and we get great support from them) but they don't look too hot at dealing with individual consumers.

Maybe the PS3 currently doesn't look as good from the software front but at least I wouldn't be crossing my fingers every time I switch it on.

Matt Barton
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Famicom Recall
Bill Loguidice wrote:

In any case, that's the first that I heard Nintendo doing that. Do you have a source or more information, as I'd really like to know more about this. As far as I can recall, the only defect in the NES was the shoddy cartridge slot and the lockout chip's low tolerance for any specific variables such as connection. While easily repaired, that was never fixed in the front loaders.

Bill, they didn't recall the NES, but they did recall the Famicom (see Wikipedia article. Apparently, there was a defect in the motherboard. This happened during the first year of the unit, and as far as I know was never an issue in anywhere but Japan. They did recall every single unit, though.

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Bill Loguidice
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MS, Nintendo, Sony - Together Again
davyK wrote:

I'm afraid if I was a 360 customer I would be looking my money back and going for Sony. This is simply inexcusable. They have at long last admitted that they have a problem - its amateur night. Mistakes happen when you are pushing the envelope but the matter has been handled shoddily.

These consoles are being marketed as mainstream entertainment devices for the home, not cutting edge tech that nerds like to tweak and play with (which would mean something like this is excusable).

When Nintendo had identified a problem with the NES back in the 80's they recalled every single one.

I don't think it's quite that extreme, frankly. They definitely messed up, but if every system sold had a problem, then they'd surely have to address it like you say. It's probably something in the system with a low tolerance for variance when it was being built and they've only just now identified the failure point and come up with an acceptable replacement.

In any case, that's the first that I heard Nintendo doing that. Do you have a source or more information, as I'd really like to know more about this. As far as I can recall, the only defect in the NES was the shoddy cartridge slot and the lockout chip's low tolerance for any specific variables such as connection. While easily repaired, that was never fixed in the front loaders.

As for the PS3, I hardly consider it a suitable replacement for anything at this point, as its severely lacking in software and its multiplatform stuff is inferior so far, but I do think the coming price drop to $499 and some of the upcoming software will start to change all that, albeit slowly. Hopefully I can get my hands on one sometime later this year, though first I'd like to get a Wii (probably in the October timeframe). Hopefully that gets some software that fits my particular desires by then as well, though I'd be happy with some of the virtual console stuff in the short-term...

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Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
Armchair Arcade, Inc.
(A PC Magazine Top 100 Website)
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davyK
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I'm afraid if I was a 360

I'm afraid if I was a 360 customer I would be looking my money back and going for Sony. This is simply inexcusable. They have at long last admitted that they have a problem - its amateur night. Mistakes happen when you are pushing the envelope but the matter has been handled shoddily.

These consoles are being marketed as mainstream entertainment devices for the home, not cutting edge tech that nerds like to tweak and play with (which would mean something like this is excusable).

When Nintendo had identified a problem with the NES back in the 80's they recalled every single one.

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