I have a very poor opinion of the American school system...........The public school system is broken beyond repair............. There are also some great private schools and academies. My advice in choosing one of those is to look at what happens to their graduates (how many go on to good colleges and careers, etc.)
Well, I wasn't expecting THAT from you, Matt, but I agree. I'm surprised that you are attacking the American education system, rather than defending it. In fact, I'm quite passionate about the subject of education, as will be evident in this post. Although I resist posting my political thoughts here on AA, welcome to my political side.
My apologies to AA readers who are not from the U.S., but I'm foaming at the mouth here over this subject as an American. Mark Vergeer is a great example: accomplished, highly-intelligent, well-adjusted, thoughtful, peaceful, humourous, and multilingual. Should we all not aspire to this? As impressive as Mark is, other Dutch people I've met in person seem to fit the same mold! Even though I've never been to the Netherlands, I LOVE the Netherlands simply because of the examples I've met, and I will travel there some day. What the heck is going on over there in the Netherlands???? How can WE as Americans get a piece of that and learn from it? The better educated humanity as a whole is, the better off humanity as a whole is.
Matt Barton wrote:
It's so bad that I think college educated parents are better off homeschooling their kids, assuming they have enough sense to make sure their kids interact as often as possible with other kids their age.
Homeschooling parents, college educated or not, DON'T have the sense to get their kids to interact with others. No exceptions, end of story, case closed! I'm convinced of it!
Okay, that's a pretty broad statement, and hard to support with hard, scientific evidence, I admit. And no parent who home-schools their kids will ever admit that their kids are anything but perfect.
BUT, in my experience, EVERY home-schooled kid I've met ABSOLUTELY fits the stereotype of the "socially-retarded homeschooler." This is not to say that they were BAD kids, and I liked them irregardless, but clearly their lack of social interaction with a large group of peers severely impacted their social skills. Despite my discomfort with their social awkwardness, I somehow liked these kids and felt SORRY for them. They had no one to punch them in the face when they crossed the line.
One girl was very quiet and shy when dealing with "outsiders," another boy would blurt out embarrassing things in polite company that was clearly not meant for public consumption, and another would not hide his feelings at all.
"Hey, Jimmy, look at the cake that Grandma baked for us!"
"I don't like Grandma's cakes. They're too dry...."
(Cue Grandma looking crushed as Jimmy curled his nose. Yes, he said this in front of Grandma. And Jimmy was in his teens, and should have known better. True story.)
Homeschooling is a fringe phenomenon that is NOT the answer. I don't know what scares me more, the "stupid punk" kids from the public schools, or the "socially retarded" home-schooled kids. Both seem to be severely disadvantaged in the "real world" when they grow up. And you can come back, to some extent, from a "bad" educational childhood, but home-schooled social ineptness seems to last forever! But there's far more public school-educated kids than there are home-schooled kids.
I don't know all the answers, but it seems like a good alternative is the "school choice voucher" programs proposed by Conservative groups and *gasp* former President Bush. Privatization of schools would allow for more competition and more experimentation to see what really works. Initiatives like Mr. Montgomery's would have a better chance of being adapted and explored in such an environment. I'd be surprised if Mr. Montgomery wasn't a heavy proponent of such initiatives, rather than trying to fight the impenetrable political bureaucracy of the public school system.
We pit schools against each other via sports, with sports teams giving their all to defeat rivals, and to even make it to the state and national championships. Wouldn't it make more sense for schools to compete ACADEMICALLY? Wouldn't it be better for our kids, our nation, and overall, for all mankind? But no... Jimmy can throw a ball like nobody's business, but can't spell "cat." And that's how we like it.
Matt Barton wrote:
The public school system is broken beyond repair. Litigation and "standardized testing" and so on have completely emasculated teachers and principals. They are forced to cater to a ridiculous curriculum and encouraged to "cheat" (giving answers, changing scores, etc.) to keep getting federal money. Socially it's worse. Any kid with any interest whatsoever in learning is brutalized by thugs, hated by the opposite sex, bored by a dumbed-down curriculum, and sometimes even tragically driven to suicide or homicide. I can't imagine any sane person wanting to teach in the public education system. You have no power whatsoever to regulate behavior in the classroom, and anything you say can and will be used against you by the administration. Parental involvement is limited to ghastly parents blaming teachers and everyone and everything else for their "precious angel's" inability to learn or respect even the most basic rules of decorum. Finally, on top of all that, teachers are underpaid, schools are underfunded, and any efforts at reform get mired in politics. It's hopeless.
It's hard to argue with any of your points above, Matt, except for the "schools are underfunded" part. We spend more per student than just about any country in the industrialized world, yet our students ranked 25th in the world in education. Here's some highlights, slanted towards some of the countries AA regulars are from:
1. Finland
5. Japan
7. Canada
9. Netherlands
16. Ireland
18. Germany
25. United States of America
The U.S. has more than doubled the amount of spending on education in the last 30 years, with little to show for it. Test scores and graduation rates have not improved to a significant degree. The only possible conclusions are A) funding isn't the real problem, or B) Americans are genetically stupid.
While "B" might be what many suspect, I'm more inclined to go with "A: funding isn't the real problem."
Here in South Carolina, we have the "South Carolina Education Lottery." That's right, when people buy scratch-offs and Powerballs, that money is going to the schools! And you can't tell me that people aren't playing the lottery! I know many people who spend significant amounts of cash on it! "The Redneck Retirement Plan," as they say. Yet, when Barack Obama was campaigning here for President, one student complained about their school, complaining that paint was peeling off the walls, among all the other litany of complaints. The news made national headlines. What's going on??? Where's all the money going????? On top of government funding, we're spending all this money on the "education" lottery, yet paint is peeling off the walls in our schools.
I had the "privilege" of meeting a local elementary school principal once during "summer vacation." He was a friend of my friend, who was visiting the school, which is why I was with him. I was just basically tagging along for the ride, but what I saw was quite illuminating.
Well, the principal was clearing out the "computer room" of old computers when we visited. When asked why he was getting rid of the "old" computers, the principle said with a wink, "if we don't spend the money on new computers, the government will cut our budget. It's all part of the game." Needless to say, my impression of him wasn't positive.
Yeah, schools are underfunded. Yeah, right. Well, I don't believe it. It's all a bureaucracy, with teachers unions, school districts, and politicians with their hand in the pot. Rather than cut the funding, why don't we divide the "extra funds" amongst the school staff, including teachers? As long as students improve, shouldn't the school personnel, particularly teachers, be rewarded? But NNNNOOOO.... (to paraphrase John Belushi), we have to encourage bureaucracy and waste.
Sorry for the tirade, but I could have kept going on and on. And I noticed that you (Matt) let the teachers off the hook in your own (otherwise laudable) tirade. I think that, not necessarily the individual teachers, but the teachers UNION as a political body, is also part of the problem.
I don't have kids, but if I had kids, I would put them in a PRIVATE school, which seems to be the best choice for now under the current climate. If I didn't have the economic choice, I would do my best to counteract the damage of the public schools with philosophy, encouragement, and a touch of "homeschooling."
It's too bad Mr. Montgomery will never read this, because his methods are the future, and American kids will be left out. .
I think that if R.A. Montgomery were reading this, he'd agree with me that it's not the money, but the method, that's important. He may not agree with me on everything, but I would dare him to dispute this point. Rote learning is unavoidable, but let's throw a little fun, incentive, and "real world" applications of our knowledge when possible!
I have a very poor opinion of the American school system...........The public school system is broken beyond repair............. There are also some great private schools and academies. My advice in choosing one of those is to look at what happens to their graduates (how many go on to good colleges and careers, etc.)
Well, I wasn't expecting THAT from you, Matt, but I agree. I'm surprised that you are attacking the American education system, rather than defending it. In fact, I'm quite passionate about the subject of education, as will be evident in this post. Although I resist posting my political thoughts here on AA, welcome to my political side.
My apologies to AA readers who are not from the U.S., but I'm foaming at the mouth here over this subject as an American. Mark Vergeer is a great example: accomplished, highly-intelligent, well-adjusted, thoughtful, peaceful, humourous, and multilingual. Should we all not aspire to this? As impressive as Mark is, other Dutch people I've met in person seem to fit the same mold! Even though I've never been to the Netherlands, I LOVE the Netherlands simply because of the examples I've met, and I will travel there some day. What the heck is going on over there in the Netherlands???? How can WE as Americans get a piece of that and learn from it? The better educated humanity as a whole is, the better off humanity as a whole is.
It's so bad that I think college educated parents are better off homeschooling their kids, assuming they have enough sense to make sure their kids interact as often as possible with other kids their age.
Homeschooling parents, college educated or not, DON'T have the sense to get their kids to interact with others. No exceptions, end of story, case closed! I'm convinced of it!
Okay, that's a pretty broad statement, and hard to support with hard, scientific evidence, I admit. And no parent who home-schools their kids will ever admit that their kids are anything but perfect.
BUT, in my experience, EVERY home-schooled kid I've met ABSOLUTELY fits the stereotype of the "socially-retarded homeschooler." This is not to say that they were BAD kids, and I liked them irregardless, but clearly their lack of social interaction with a large group of peers severely impacted their social skills. Despite my discomfort with their social awkwardness, I somehow liked these kids and felt SORRY for them. They had no one to punch them in the face when they crossed the line.
One girl was very quiet and shy when dealing with "outsiders," another boy would blurt out embarrassing things in polite company that was clearly not meant for public consumption, and another would not hide his feelings at all.
"Hey, Jimmy, look at the cake that Grandma baked for us!"
"I don't like Grandma's cakes. They're too dry...."
(Cue Grandma looking crushed as Jimmy curled his nose. Yes, he said this in front of Grandma. And Jimmy was in his teens, and should have known better. True story.)
Homeschooling is a fringe phenomenon that is NOT the answer. I don't know what scares me more, the "stupid punk" kids from the public schools, or the "socially retarded" home-schooled kids. Both seem to be severely disadvantaged in the "real world" when they grow up. And you can come back, to some extent, from a "bad" educational childhood, but home-schooled social ineptness seems to last forever! But there's far more public school-educated kids than there are home-schooled kids.
I don't know all the answers, but it seems like a good alternative is the "school choice voucher" programs proposed by Conservative groups and *gasp* former President Bush. Privatization of schools would allow for more competition and more experimentation to see what really works. Initiatives like Mr. Montgomery's would have a better chance of being adapted and explored in such an environment. I'd be surprised if Mr. Montgomery wasn't a heavy proponent of such initiatives, rather than trying to fight the impenetrable political bureaucracy of the public school system.
We pit schools against each other via sports, with sports teams giving their all to defeat rivals, and to even make it to the state and national championships. Wouldn't it make more sense for schools to compete ACADEMICALLY? Wouldn't it be better for our kids, our nation, and overall, for all mankind? But no... Jimmy can throw a ball like nobody's business, but can't spell "cat." And that's how we like it.
The public school system is broken beyond repair. Litigation and "standardized testing" and so on have completely emasculated teachers and principals. They are forced to cater to a ridiculous curriculum and encouraged to "cheat" (giving answers, changing scores, etc.) to keep getting federal money. Socially it's worse. Any kid with any interest whatsoever in learning is brutalized by thugs, hated by the opposite sex, bored by a dumbed-down curriculum, and sometimes even tragically driven to suicide or homicide. I can't imagine any sane person wanting to teach in the public education system. You have no power whatsoever to regulate behavior in the classroom, and anything you say can and will be used against you by the administration. Parental involvement is limited to ghastly parents blaming teachers and everyone and everything else for their "precious angel's" inability to learn or respect even the most basic rules of decorum. Finally, on top of all that, teachers are underpaid, schools are underfunded, and any efforts at reform get mired in politics. It's hopeless.
It's hard to argue with any of your points above, Matt, except for the "schools are underfunded" part. We spend more per student than just about any country in the industrialized world, yet our students ranked 25th in the world in education. Here's some highlights, slanted towards some of the countries AA regulars are from:
1. Finland
5. Japan
7. Canada
9. Netherlands
16. Ireland
18. Germany
25. United States of America
The U.S. has more than doubled the amount of spending on education in the last 30 years, with little to show for it. Test scores and graduation rates have not improved to a significant degree. The only possible conclusions are A) funding isn't the real problem, or B) Americans are genetically stupid.
While "B" might be what many suspect, I'm more inclined to go with "A: funding isn't the real problem."
Here in South Carolina, we have the "South Carolina Education Lottery." That's right, when people buy scratch-offs and Powerballs, that money is going to the schools! And you can't tell me that people aren't playing the lottery! I know many people who spend significant amounts of cash on it! "The Redneck Retirement Plan," as they say. Yet, when Barack Obama was campaigning here for President, one student complained about their school, complaining that paint was peeling off the walls, among all the other litany of complaints. The news made national headlines. What's going on??? Where's all the money going????? On top of government funding, we're spending all this money on the "education" lottery, yet paint is peeling off the walls in our schools.
I had the "privilege" of meeting a local elementary school principal once during "summer vacation." He was a friend of my friend, who was visiting the school, which is why I was with him. I was just basically tagging along for the ride, but what I saw was quite illuminating.
Well, the principal was clearing out the "computer room" of old computers when we visited. When asked why he was getting rid of the "old" computers, the principle said with a wink, "if we don't spend the money on new computers, the government will cut our budget. It's all part of the game." Needless to say, my impression of him wasn't positive.
Yeah, schools are underfunded. Yeah, right. Well, I don't believe it. It's all a bureaucracy, with teachers unions, school districts, and politicians with their hand in the pot. Rather than cut the funding, why don't we divide the "extra funds" amongst the school staff, including teachers? As long as students improve, shouldn't the school personnel, particularly teachers, be rewarded? But NNNNOOOO.... (to paraphrase John Belushi), we have to encourage bureaucracy and waste.
Sorry for the tirade, but I could have kept going on and on. And I noticed that you (Matt) let the teachers off the hook in your own (otherwise laudable) tirade. I think that, not necessarily the individual teachers, but the teachers UNION as a political body, is also part of the problem.
I don't have kids, but if I had kids, I would put them in a PRIVATE school, which seems to be the best choice for now under the current climate. If I didn't have the economic choice, I would do my best to counteract the damage of the public schools with philosophy, encouragement, and a touch of "homeschooling."
It's too bad Mr. Montgomery will never read this, because his methods are the future, and American kids will be left out. .
I think that if R.A. Montgomery were reading this, he'd agree with me that it's not the money, but the method, that's important. He may not agree with me on everything, but I would dare him to dispute this point. Rote learning is unavoidable, but let's throw a little fun, incentive, and "real world" applications of our knowledge when possible!
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