Wow, so many great points, hard to know where to start. Okay, here, then.
Rowdy Rob wrote:
I don't know if someone actually bought such a property, but if someone did, they must feel pretty stupid right now, since UO's star has faded in the gaming marketplace.
I don't want to state the obvious, but the real estate bubble probably has a lot more people feeling pretty stupid right now. The big problem is that "property" is itself "virtual." For one thing you can't "own" something outright; you need laws, government, society, etc. behind you to protect your right to that property. On the other hand, you might say, well, my acreage is REAL, tangible, whatever, whereas some island on Second Life is virtual, intangible, etc. Obviously in a sense this distinction is valid, yet in the more important financial sense, invalid. The value of a piece of land fluctuates along with the economy (and all the social contexts that go with that). You might say, "Well, my island in Second Life could disappear along with Linden Labs," but your "real property" could also disappear along with the government, failure to pay taxes, or a natural disaster (King Kong shows up!).
What is the real difference between investing in a virtual estate and selling it later for a profit, vs. doing the same thing with "real" estate? Money is money, which is itself quite virtual if you think about it.
Quote:
While I have no problem with people spending reasonable money on fun, it seems like an over-the-top materialistic waste to spend good money on frivilous things such as clothing for your avatar when people are suffering in this world. Yes, I'm invoking the "real world vs. fantasy world" response, and I'm sorry to give you the "liberal guilt trip" argument, Matt, but sometimes it's necessary to jostle your right-wing "spend my money as I want to" point of view.
True, but that kind of thing is a slippery slope. Should we all take a vow of poverty and donate all of our surplus wealth to feed the poor? If you were to go to a poor country and give any one citizen a million dollars with no strings attached, would that person turn around and give all but is absolutely necessary for survival to his brothers and sisters? Somehow, I doubt it. Hell, if the Catholic Church (and other churches) have a bad habit of spending huge wads of "charity" on fabulous churches and paintings instead of feeding the poor, it's probably silly to hold anyone personally responsible for preferring luxury to a "good conscious."
Quote:
Matt, most MMO's have limited direct controls, even by videogame standards! MMO's have simplified controls to make them appealing to the masses. And getting masses to play them is how they make their money. This is not to say they don't require skill, but to compare a great "World of Warcraft" player to Michael Jordan seems ridiculous. There's a TREMENDOUS difference between an athlete and a guy who's clicking a mouse.
I think you'd be surprised. It is more similar than give it credit for. Sure, the controls are easy enough that almost anyone remotely schooled in games can learn the basics. But can't a fat, overweight, dude with poor eyesight go to a basketball court and lob a few balls? If he sticks with it, he might even learn to make a few baskets. I'm sure most people who play basketball are far from Michael Jordan's skill.
With WoW (as just one example) there is amazing skill required at the high end and heavy competition. There is the infamous "recount," for instance, that tallies up all the damage done during a raid and then spits out the top performers. There is also PVP and arenas and so on, too, where the best players compete. Getting to the top requires a level of speed and precision that very few WoW players will ever approach. We're talking in terms of a tenth of a second, striking keys, moving the mouse, staying alert to everything happening on screen. I'm nowhere close to the top, yet it takes every ounce of my concentration and coordination to get through some of this stuff. Even looking away for a few seconds can result in the party's death. I've never been an athlete, but I'm sure they must go through a similar experience of being "in the zone" and desperately seeking for any edge they can get to put them over the top.
Of course, you see this even more in the multiplayer shooters and the like. Those cats can do amazing things that are (for a nerd, at least) just as impressive as seeing MJ do his thing. Hell, I'm awed by those "speed runs" people do with games like SMB. Just amazing to see.
Quote:
I'm not sure that we'll ever be at a point where work will be "fun," in general. "Hey, I'll play 'Donkey Kong,' and viola!! I just built a car!!!!" Work isn't (generally) fun, and that's why we have two separate words for them. Yes, work can be enjoyable (in some cases), but the real incentive to work productively is REWARD, not fun. "Hey, if I provide a valuable service, I'll make more money, and I'll be able to buy more videogames!!"
Well, the key seems to be finding more ways to tie "real" money into the mix. It'd be pretty cool if you could, say, trade in some of the gold you accumulated in the game into real dollars in your bank account. There are, of course, many illegal ways to do this already. It's easy enough to set up a deal where you give someone so much gold in exchange for cash. This kind of thing is currently frowned upon my Blizzard and many other developers, yet I'm sure it will eventually be commonplace. The fact is, there will always be people out there whose time is more valuable to them than money. I bet I could earn about 30 gold an hour playing WoW. Many items in the game cost thousands (I think one thing right now is 15,000). "Farming" for that much gold takes time and energy that many folks would prefer to spend doing something else. I think the going rate right now is something like $20 per 1000 gold. It's easy to see why people would want to just pay the money to get it now rather than doing all that "work" to get it.
Wow, so many great points, hard to know where to start. Okay, here, then.
I don't know if someone actually bought such a property, but if someone did, they must feel pretty stupid right now, since UO's star has faded in the gaming marketplace.
I don't want to state the obvious, but the real estate bubble probably has a lot more people feeling pretty stupid right now. The big problem is that "property" is itself "virtual." For one thing you can't "own" something outright; you need laws, government, society, etc. behind you to protect your right to that property. On the other hand, you might say, well, my acreage is REAL, tangible, whatever, whereas some island on Second Life is virtual, intangible, etc. Obviously in a sense this distinction is valid, yet in the more important financial sense, invalid. The value of a piece of land fluctuates along with the economy (and all the social contexts that go with that). You might say, "Well, my island in Second Life could disappear along with Linden Labs," but your "real property" could also disappear along with the government, failure to pay taxes, or a natural disaster (King Kong shows up!).
What is the real difference between investing in a virtual estate and selling it later for a profit, vs. doing the same thing with "real" estate? Money is money, which is itself quite virtual if you think about it.
While I have no problem with people spending reasonable money on fun, it seems like an over-the-top materialistic waste to spend good money on frivilous things such as clothing for your avatar when people are suffering in this world. Yes, I'm invoking the "real world vs. fantasy world" response, and I'm sorry to give you the "liberal guilt trip" argument, Matt, but sometimes it's necessary to jostle your right-wing "spend my money as I want to" point of view.
True, but that kind of thing is a slippery slope. Should we all take a vow of poverty and donate all of our surplus wealth to feed the poor? If you were to go to a poor country and give any one citizen a million dollars with no strings attached, would that person turn around and give all but is absolutely necessary for survival to his brothers and sisters? Somehow, I doubt it. Hell, if the Catholic Church (and other churches) have a bad habit of spending huge wads of "charity" on fabulous churches and paintings instead of feeding the poor, it's probably silly to hold anyone personally responsible for preferring luxury to a "good conscious."
Matt, most MMO's have limited direct controls, even by videogame standards! MMO's have simplified controls to make them appealing to the masses. And getting masses to play them is how they make their money. This is not to say they don't require skill, but to compare a great "World of Warcraft" player to Michael Jordan seems ridiculous. There's a TREMENDOUS difference between an athlete and a guy who's clicking a mouse.
I think you'd be surprised. It is more similar than give it credit for. Sure, the controls are easy enough that almost anyone remotely schooled in games can learn the basics. But can't a fat, overweight, dude with poor eyesight go to a basketball court and lob a few balls? If he sticks with it, he might even learn to make a few baskets. I'm sure most people who play basketball are far from Michael Jordan's skill.
With WoW (as just one example) there is amazing skill required at the high end and heavy competition. There is the infamous "recount," for instance, that tallies up all the damage done during a raid and then spits out the top performers. There is also PVP and arenas and so on, too, where the best players compete. Getting to the top requires a level of speed and precision that very few WoW players will ever approach. We're talking in terms of a tenth of a second, striking keys, moving the mouse, staying alert to everything happening on screen. I'm nowhere close to the top, yet it takes every ounce of my concentration and coordination to get through some of this stuff. Even looking away for a few seconds can result in the party's death. I've never been an athlete, but I'm sure they must go through a similar experience of being "in the zone" and desperately seeking for any edge they can get to put them over the top.
Of course, you see this even more in the multiplayer shooters and the like. Those cats can do amazing things that are (for a nerd, at least) just as impressive as seeing MJ do his thing. Hell, I'm awed by those "speed runs" people do with games like SMB. Just amazing to see.
I'm not sure that we'll ever be at a point where work will be "fun," in general. "Hey, I'll play 'Donkey Kong,' and viola!! I just built a car!!!!" Work isn't (generally) fun, and that's why we have two separate words for them. Yes, work can be enjoyable (in some cases), but the real incentive to work productively is REWARD, not fun. "Hey, if I provide a valuable service, I'll make more money, and I'll be able to buy more videogames!!"
Well, the key seems to be finding more ways to tie "real" money into the mix. It'd be pretty cool if you could, say, trade in some of the gold you accumulated in the game into real dollars in your bank account. There are, of course, many illegal ways to do this already. It's easy enough to set up a deal where you give someone so much gold in exchange for cash. This kind of thing is currently frowned upon my Blizzard and many other developers, yet I'm sure it will eventually be commonplace. The fact is, there will always be people out there whose time is more valuable to them than money. I bet I could earn about 30 gold an hour playing WoW. Many items in the game cost thousands (I think one thing right now is 15,000). "Farming" for that much gold takes time and energy that many folks would prefer to spend doing something else. I think the going rate right now is something like $20 per 1000 gold. It's easy to see why people would want to just pay the money to get it now rather than doing all that "work" to get it.
Matt Barton, Managing Editor
Location: St. Cloud, Minnesota, USA
Email: matt@armchairarcade.com