I played "Dungeon Master" in its heyday, and while it wasn't "simple," it did seem bland. I like a "graphical" reward in experiencing new scenery, but everything I've seen of DM seems like it's basically the same walls over and over. I had the same problem with the "Wizardry" series, which is why I preferred the "Ultima" series much more.
Well, DM doesn't have many different wall textures, that's certainly true.
It has some rewards, especially in the deeper levels, but they are not very frequent, IIRC.
Nevertheless, there are some very interesting things to see, like the section of the maze that I'd like to call "treadmill" - graphically unspectacular, but worth experiencing.
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Part of my dislike was probably my mindset. I think many CRPG's require a "role playing" mindset, where you actually imagine yourself as the character in the game, and get immersed in the game on a psychological level. This is very difficult for me, and I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to experience my first true "role-playing" mindset in a CRPG in "Baldur's Gate." And even then, I was playing an idealized version of myself ("Paladin Rob") and not actually becoming another character altogether.
I understand what you are saying but I don't think that you should approach these games in this way - you don't need a special mindset.
Try so see them as "world simulators" that offer a lot of interaction (dialogues, exploration, combat, inventory management etc.). Then give the game a bit of time and let the plot of the game or task at hand capture you - you'll automatically get immersed and -hopefully- a great CRPG experience!
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I think the "mindset" is where the disconnect occurs with me. I suspect that "Dungeon Master-aholics" had the imagination to "feel" the game on a psychological level that impatient, youthful (dumb?) people like me didn't have.
Well, I was around 20 at the time (1988 - mobygames incorrectly credits the Amiga conversion with 1992) - so much for youthful - but as a role-player you certainly need to be able to to embody a role - whether self created or predefined (like in this game). However, the latter is also true for most adventure games or story-based shooters, which can be pretty immersive as well.
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You hardcore CRPG'ers are not seeing the "bland" corridors, you are feeling the characters in a "real" situation! Am I right, or was Dungeon Master just a "cool" videogame that I didn't get?
I like great graphics & eye candy as much as the next guy but there's something much more appealing to me: Interactive possibilities.
The more you can do in a game the better - and this is at least for me more important than graphics. The more interaction the more I'm in a game, if you so will, and DM not only offers a vivid 3D environment, it also offers a great level of interaction, even if the scope of the game is limited. It's the big things like object management that I don't recall being done before in such a way and it's the small things like a portcullis you can satisfyingly drop on enemies.
Two non-CRPG examples:
Text adventures - though entirely without graphics you usually play them in the first person. They often offer a multitude of commands and the better ones have lots of witty responses and interactive effects. Most are very linear, though.
The Thief games (aka "Dark Project"): For nearly ten years I play this series and countless fan missions now - there are *still* new ones coming out - and the graphics *are* dated, even if new textures are being used. I *am* the masterthief Garrett when I play these games even though they aren't RPGs in any traditional way. Incidentally I don't like the third-person perspective of "Thief - Deadly Shadows", the most recent part of the series.
I played "Dungeon Master" in its heyday, and while it wasn't "simple," it did seem bland. I like a "graphical" reward in experiencing new scenery, but everything I've seen of DM seems like it's basically the same walls over and over. I had the same problem with the "Wizardry" series, which is why I preferred the "Ultima" series much more.
Well, DM doesn't have many different wall textures, that's certainly true.
It has some rewards, especially in the deeper levels, but they are not very frequent, IIRC.
Nevertheless, there are some very interesting things to see, like the section of the maze that I'd like to call "treadmill" - graphically unspectacular, but worth experiencing.
Part of my dislike was probably my mindset. I think many CRPG's require a "role playing" mindset, where you actually imagine yourself as the character in the game, and get immersed in the game on a psychological level. This is very difficult for me, and I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to experience my first true "role-playing" mindset in a CRPG in "Baldur's Gate." And even then, I was playing an idealized version of myself ("Paladin Rob") and not actually becoming another character altogether.
I understand what you are saying but I don't think that you should approach these games in this way - you don't need a special mindset.
Try so see them as "world simulators" that offer a lot of interaction (dialogues, exploration, combat, inventory management etc.). Then give the game a bit of time and let the plot of the game or task at hand capture you - you'll automatically get immersed and -hopefully- a great CRPG experience!
I think the "mindset" is where the disconnect occurs with me. I suspect that "Dungeon Master-aholics" had the imagination to "feel" the game on a psychological level that impatient, youthful (dumb?) people like me didn't have.
Well, I was around 20 at the time (1988 - mobygames incorrectly credits the Amiga conversion with 1992) - so much for youthful - but as a role-player you certainly need to be able to to embody a role - whether self created or predefined (like in this game). However, the latter is also true for most adventure games or story-based shooters, which can be pretty immersive as well.
You hardcore CRPG'ers are not seeing the "bland" corridors, you are feeling the characters in a "real" situation! Am I right, or was Dungeon Master just a "cool" videogame that I didn't get?
I like great graphics & eye candy as much as the next guy but there's something much more appealing to me: Interactive possibilities.
The more you can do in a game the better - and this is at least for me more important than graphics. The more interaction the more I'm in a game, if you so will, and DM not only offers a vivid 3D environment, it also offers a great level of interaction, even if the scope of the game is limited. It's the big things like object management that I don't recall being done before in such a way and it's the small things like a portcullis you can satisfyingly drop on enemies.
Two non-CRPG examples:
Text adventures - though entirely without graphics you usually play them in the first person. They often offer a multitude of commands and the better ones have lots of witty responses and interactive effects. Most are very linear, though.
The Thief games (aka "Dark Project"): For nearly ten years I play this series and countless fan missions now - there are *still* new ones coming out - and the graphics *are* dated, even if new textures are being used. I *am* the masterthief Garrett when I play these games even though they aren't RPGs in any traditional way. Incidentally I don't like the third-person perspective of "Thief - Deadly Shadows", the most recent part of the series.
take care,
Calibrator
take care,
Calibrator