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yakumo9275's picture

funny.. Most of your

funny.. Most of your contentious issues to me are non-starters. Contentious for CRPG to me are Japanese console games CRPG's? Is Diablo a roguelike or an arcade clickfest? (boy that comes up a lot on rec.games.roguelike.misc/developer)..
Is half-life a crpg just because it has some semblance of a story? Quest for Glory, is it an RPG or just a tarted up adventure game? My biggest contention is with useless things. If choosing to be female has no affect on the story or any change at all, why is it there... (ie: food in Ultima iii.. Whats the point??)

I'm not sure about comparing rogue to Ultima I and bards tale. Rogue defined/created an entire subgenre and none of which Id consider CRPG's (wait.. is that the point?)

I also agree with bill on the evolutionary dead end. Post dead end I didn't really like much crpg's. I loved fallout but its no Wasteland. I loved Baldurs Gate but its no Pool of Radiance, and I refuse to play these morrowind/oblivion garbage. It started to hit me when Lands of Lore had the built in automapper and when game play time suddenly decreased and games were dumbed down. (I still have my graph paper maps for bards tale and such). (comp.sys.ibmpc.games.rpg is full of old posts like "Why should I have to map the dungeon, its tedious and boring!" / "Why are you playing a dungeon exploration game to begin with!")

Im not sure why a lot of what you have listed in contentions are there at all. Whats contentious about the magic system? Its like saying Palladium rules are contentious because their magic system is not the same as the AD&D system or that Gurps is not the same as AD&D.

and single player vs party is again a non-starter. Questron ii was great and its single player.

The great definition for crpg is to me more its implementation. If half-life was done with a 2d topdown tile engine it would be a crpg. To me anything with a fps engine is an fps. (yes that includes morrow wind and oblivion and ultima underworld etc).

I think its a fine line and you need to determine on a game by game basis, hence why all the arguments that Diablo is nothing but a clickfest arcade game and that half-life is really just an FPS shooter... personal opinion is not going to be agreed by everyone. (Loved Dungeon master + EOB but thought lands of lore was crap).

Another big issue for me with crpg's is sticking with the story. For me, Wizardry seriously lost it when suddenly you've gone from swords and sorcery to scifi! aaaargh WTF?

(for bills info, i found crpgs before tabletop rpgs and it was like 1984+ so my first crpgs were like Ultima III, Wasteland, Bards Tale, Questron, Wizardry, Magic Candle etc.. and my tabletop experience is with cyberpunk2020 etc skipped the whole ad&d tabletop thing).

oh.. and gauntlet was an amazing arcade game for its time. 4 players around the machine... awesome arcade goodness.

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